BU grade

Yes I know that we already have got such great grades options like G and AU in the past. But to get BU in the line (for all coins, not only sets) would be really nice as sometimes collectors make difference between UNC and BU (and search for BU, not UNC). Another thing is that BU has more higher value than UNC (also in the catalogue) but the final value at Numista belongs to UNC what is a bit not correct if to talk about swaps & balance.

My voice is for adding BU in the grade scale.
Do you agree / disagree?

This would clear up most of the confusion so like you said it will be placed above UNC so would it be in place for coins that are in the MS 67-70 coins and UNC MS 60-66.

I doubt Numista will ever adopt BU because the definition of "BU" varies between countries and collectors. Some call it the grade of a coin above UNC in their opinion (MS67-70), some call it lower grades of UNC (MS 60-63), some call it any shiny coin... . Some use this term, some never use this term, some try to avoid it to eliminate confusion.

These are a few links to start reading about BU and UNC.
https://en.numista.com/forum/topic40350.html
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/woah-is-there-a-difference-between-unc-and-bu.337776/

well at least one definition says:



and at least one picture shows :)

Цитата: "akadotour"​well at least one definition says:
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​and at least one picture shows :)
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​Yes, some definitions will support this side.

Some will tell you the opposite:
"The Brilliant Uncirculated designation (BU) is reserved for Business Strike coins that have never been circulated (e.g. that are in Mint State) and fall in a grade range of roughly 60-63"
https://www.mintstategold.com/investor-education/cat/about-coin-grading/post/point-grading-scale/

Some will tell you that BU is the same as UNC:
"Coins with no wear at all are alternately referred to as Uncirculated (Unc.), Brilliant Uncirculated (BU), and Mint State (MS). When a numerical grade is assigned to an uncirculated coin, it goes along with the abbreviation MS, such as MS-60."
https://coins.ha.com/tutorial/coin-grading.s

NGC & PCGS will tell you that it is a non-standard adjectival grade:
"In addition, the designation BU (Brilliant Uncirculated) is frequently used to describe uncirculated coins. Because of the absence of a numerical grade, this term is ambiguous at best. Often, coins that are offered as BU may, in reality, be AU (About Uncirculated) by strict definition."
https://www.pcgs.com/News/How-United-States-Coins-Are-Graded
https://www.ngccoin.com/coin-grading/grading-scale/adjectival-grades/

So, it means that there are several definitions. Who is the authority? It is up to collectors.

But it seems that "BU" coin can be anywhere from AU50 to MS70 depending on the coin and who you ask.

The UK Royal mint describes BU as a "striking standard", not a grade.

https://www.royalmint.com/discover/coin-collecting/striking-standards/

All non-proof annual coin sets since 1983 have been described as Brilliant Uncirculated along with many commemorative issues. Consequently, we have separate year lines marked BU for modern UK coins. This doesn't mean the other definitions aren't used but it does make it a lot more difficult to use BU as a grade.

Different opinions exist of what BU is indeed. The main is not to find the correct one. Main is that many collectors understand that BU has higher value than UNC (no matter if it is the grade itself or not). And because more and more swappers switched to Numista values to balance swaps then it has a sense to add BU in the line. It will make the balancing with Numista values easier.

Цитата: "akadotour"​Different opinions exist of what BU is indeed. The main is not to find the correct one. Main is that many collectors understand that BU has higher value than UNC (no matter if it is the grade itself or not). And because more and more swappers switched to Numista values to balance swaps then it has a sense to add BU in the line. It will make the balancing with Numista values easier.

​How do you take into account the fact that BU means something different for UK coins? This isn't a question of opinion, it's the official term used by the Royal Mint.

Цитата: "ceh2019"​

Цитата: "akadotour"​Different opinions exist of what BU is indeed. The main is not to find the correct one. Main is that many collectors understand that BU has higher value than UNC (no matter if it is the grade itself or not). And because more and more swappers switched to Numista values to balance swaps then it has a sense to add BU in the line. It will make the balancing with Numista values easier.

​​How do you take into account the fact that BU means something different for UK coins? This isn't a question of opinion, it's the official term used by the Royal Mint.

​Well I'm just usual collector so can't go so deep in all these details I just know that most times I swap or purchase when is written BU it is more attractive no matter if is UK coin or not. And the catalogue gives more high value for BU so when BU is missing at Numista then swap by Numista value is not so brilliantly correct if in a deal are for example BU and UNC coins if to compare with NGC values. That what I meant. Balancing which is important for many users here. With all respect to the Royal Mint :)

I'm not against this in principle, I just don't want to see confusion created by having two different uses of the term BU. Take a look at this page https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces70543.html and see how you think adding BU as a grade would affect it.

Цитата: "ceh2019"​I'm not against this in principle, I just don't want to see confusion created by having two different uses of the term BU. Take a look at this page https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces70543.html and see how you think adding BU as a grade would affect it.

​Yes I understand, if all coins would have like UK additional line for BU then I wouldn't open this topic :)
But there are much more countries and would be great to be more flexible with valuation what is quite important for swappers

If I have BU coin which has NGC value in 2 times more than UNC but meanwhile at Numista it has only UNC field & value then the swap partner will guess it's correct to get it by UNC value but it is not so correct in NGC value coordinates, so here is something what can be corrected at Numista talking of values & balances to be more closer to needs of users which would like to use Numista values but in case of BU coins it's not that possible to use them in a right way.

Actuallly it's just a consequence of appearing of Numista values and that users started to use them for balancing until values appeared it was not so matter with BU field.

So what's your solution for the problem this will create in the UK listings?

Цитата: "ceh2019"​So what's your solution for the problem this will create in the UK listings?

I don't see there a problem. just new grade field will be
Now is only UNC value for BU and will be BU value for BU
If it's from set I'll put it in BU line if separated from set in usual line or so

But the two BUs have different meanings. How do you propose to clarify that?

Цитата: "ceh2019"​But the two BUs have different meanings. How do you propose to clarify that?

​If I scratch UK BU coin from set it will stay BU when we talk of it's value or become less , for example F?

Цитата: "akadotour"​

Цитата: "ceh2019"​But the two BUs have different meanings. How do you propose to clarify that?

​​If I scratch UK BU coin from set it will stay BU when we talk of it's value or become less , for example F?

BU coins from the UK are essentially defined as being within the set. A damaged BU coin would be just that, a bit like an impaired proof.

I have a set I put my BU coin as BU. Now it is BU in both ways like the Royal Mint said and like I guess it is with condition & value



I cut set , took off 20 p and scratched the coin a few times, now it's in a bad shape
I put it in my swap list as F. Now it is still BU (by the Royal Mint definition) but F (by shape)

Well, it might work but I still think it will confuse people unless there's some explicit explanation of the different meanings of the two "BU"s. Can I suggest you run this past the referee for the UK, radrick007?

Цитата: "ceh2019"​Well, it might work but I still think it will confuse people unless there's some explicit explanation of the different meanings of the two "BU"s. Can I suggest you run this past the referee for the UK, radrick007?

Yes I'm sure he also could think about this if have time and wish. In any case the final decision is on the site's owner whatever we think here hehe.
For UK users probably deactivating BU field for regular coin line can be more understandable but I guess it's too complicate technically.

I agree with @ceh2019, BU is a striking standard here in the UK and therefore to have it as a grading standard muddies the water. Use BUNC if you have to grade it? I assume you are wanting to grade the lustre left on the coin therefore giving it a 'Brilliant' ?

Цитата: "ceh2019"​Well, it might work but I still think it will confuse people unless there's some explicit explanation of the different meanings of the two "BU"s. Can I suggest you run this past the referee for the UK, radrick007?

​Good morning all, I trust you are well. As has already been mentioned, a grade of BU for British coinage would be largely irrelevant so it is difficult for me to comment on this general suggestion, other than from the UK catalogue point of view. I don't have enough knowledge or experience about international coin grading to be able to say whether this is a good suggestion overall but from a purely selfish perpective, I would not vote for this idea.