Latin translation [решено]

Hello,

Now that the ability to directly indicate unabridged legend has been implemented, I have started indicating them. I studied Latin in high school, and I wanted to get confirmation from someone else about this translation (especially the Latin declensions).

F · G · BOR · REX · PR · SUP · NOVIC · & VAL ·
Fridericus Guillelmus Borussiae Rex Princeps Supremus Novicastri et Valengini
Frederick William, King of Prussia, Sovereign Prince of Neuchâtel and Valangin.

https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces100103.html

Thanks in advance.

Basteros

Yours: Fridericus Guillelmus Borussiae Rex Princeps Supremus Novicastri et Valengini
Mine: Fridericus Guilelmus Borussorum Rex Princeps Supremus Novicastri et Valangini



No idea who is right.

Third: Fredericus Guglielmus Borussorum Rex Princeps Supremus Novicastelli et Valangini
Frederic William, King of Prussia, Supreme Prince of Neufchâtel and Valangin

Thank you very much for your comments, what references do you use?

I suppose that several spellings are possible for the name of the ruler. Froidevaux (2019) writes "Valengini" and "Novicastri". Then, for Borussiae or Borrusorum, you would have to look at the latin declensions, but I honestly don't remember how to do it.

Цитата: "Basteros"​Thank you very much for your comments, what references do you use?
​
​I suppose that several spellings are possible for the name of the ruler. Froidevaux (2019) writes "Valengini" and "Novicastri". Then, for Borussiae or Borrusorum, you would have to look at the latin declensions, but I honestly don't remember how to do it.

​There can be various spellings of proper names, so I'm not sure about this. If you find online official documents such as edicts, then normally you'll have the King's names and titles in full at the top.

As for Borussorum vs. Borussiae, it's really two different things (though based on the same root Boruss-):

Rex Borussiae = King of Prussia [Borussia = Prussia; Borussiae = of Prussia]
Rex Borussorum = King of the Prussians [Borussi = the Prussians; Borussorum = of the Prussians]

The first title is more prestigious than the second, of course.

Of course this is about another Prussian ruler with the same name: Fridericus Guilelmus IV. But look at the different name variants (https://data.cerl.org/thesaurus/cnp01496224) and I'm sure these apply too for his predecessors Fridericus Guilelmus I and II.

Yes, this is exactly the problem, EssorProf.

We think in terms of standardized spelling, but that's not how they saw things back then.

I think the most OK form in Latin is Gulielmus. Vuilhelmus and Wuilhelmus are "Germanized" forms, or rather German names with a Latinized ending. There is actually no "W" in Latin. The only way to transcribe it is "VV", i.e. two "V"s side by side.

"K" is quite rare and limited to very few Latin words (such as kalendae = the first day of any month) and words borrowed from Greek (it's actually a Greek letter). So, one expects Fridericus or Fredericus. The i/e alternation is because it's an unstressed vowel pronounced kind of in between the two. Think of English nation / national / nationality and notice how the "a" sound changes. Without standard spelling, you would have a hard time to know how to write them. And think of what sound actually hides behind the "o" of purpose. Is it the same "o" as in positive or pole? No, of course not.

Interesting discussiin. I don't know much Latin, but Novocastelli looks strange to me. I thought places named Neufchatel / Neufchateau were Novocastrum inLatin?

Цитата: "tdziemia"​Interesting discussion. I don't know much Latin, but Novocastelli looks strange to me. I thought places named Neufchatel / Neufchateau were Novocastrum inLatin?

​Good point, and I actually forgot to mention this in my previous reply, that there is probably a standard Latin name and spelling for cities and other locations. In Latin, both castrum and castellum exist to mean "fort" or "fortress".

But to complicate matters, in "New Latin" the name is Neocomum.

We have coins struck with the name (or abbreviation) Novocastri on them, so I think this is the better usage.

Цитата: "tdziemia"​We have coins struck with the name (or abbreviation) Novocastri on them, so I think this is the better usage.

Yes, that's the strongest argument, though sometimes it maybe divided into two words, as on some coins: Novi Castri (= of Novum Castrum), the basic form being Novum Castrum.