Identification of three pieces of exonumia

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Good afternoon and thank you in advance:


I recently acquired three pieces at a street market and tried to find them on Numista:

 

  • The first one (top left) is the only one I couldn't find any reference to. Its specifications are: weight 7.60 g; width 23.8 mm; thickness 2.3 mm; and reed pattern.
  • The second (top right) is a 30-cent coin. This coin is similar to others (such as the beer mug and handshake) with the same face value, reverse, weight, width, and so on; but with an eagle on the obverse of another 20-cent coin.
  • The third one (bottom left) I believe is the Sans Valeur token with a star, in which someone has had a hole cut. The width and thickness match.


I hope Numista members can provide me with more information and/or confirm the references I have marked about them. And even if it's appropriate for me to include them in the exonumia list.

The first is the most surprising:. The legend "by land and by sea" doesn't refer to a military unit, but there is an old "by land and by sea" game by SAUSSINE from 1905, a large 1930 model, with tokens from 1930 shown in the photo. 

However, there's nothing preventing the early 20th-century version from having dedicated tokens.

 

The second is rare, but there's a profusion of 30-centime tokens with limited mintages, and a handful of French collectors on Numista are working to catalog them all, so your contribution is most welcome. Thank you in advance for creating a record, preferably in the french version:
30 centimes à consommer - aigle

Matériel: laiton

Démonétisé: 08 1937

Avers: Aigle sur une branche dans un listel ondulé à l'intérieur et strié à l'extérieur.

Revers: Valeur faciale dans un listel ondulé à l'intérieur et strié à l'extérieur

Inscription: 30c

traduction: 30 centimes 

Liens: N#126190

Date: (1902-1937) ND (slot machines in bars were banned in August 1937)

 

The third is the perforated version of a token already listed on Numista:
N#360834
Why are there perforated versions and others without hole? 

This is a widely debated topic within the limited circle of French gaming token collectors, and for the moment, there is no definitive answer. However, the most likely explanation is that the perforated tokens were distributed by winning combinations on slot machines and were not reusable; they could be exchanged at the bar counter for a drink or a winnings under the table (as it was forbidden by law)

Referee of south atlantic islands

I created pages on your behalf, you might precise dimensions and orientation and include better pics :

N#575817

N#575822

I didn't create a file for the first token cause my identification as a Saussine game token is probably wrong.

Referee of south atlantic islands

Frenchlover

my identification as a Saussine game token is probably wrong.

Le bord cranté, l'attache carrée au centre et des traces de fixation par brasure à l'étain indiquent très probablement qu'il s'agit d'une molette de lampe à pétrole.

“Par terre et par mer” serait un bon nom pour une marque de lampe tempête, mais je n'en trouve pas trace.

Personally, since last year I haven't found any more information about these parts except for what you've written here in the forum.

Regarding what you mentioned:

I created pages on your behalf, you might precise dimensions and orientation and include better pics :

N#575817

N#575822
 

  • The information for each one regarding weight, diameter, thickness, edge  and alignment is as follows:
  • First (top left): 7.64 g;  23.8 mm; 2.3 mm; reed pattern and aligned like a medal ↑↑
  • Second (top left): 2.50 g; 18.5 mm; 1.3 mm; plain and aligned like a coin ↑↓
  • Third (bottom left): 4.02 g; 23.4 mm (6.6 mm hole); 1.4 mm; plain and aligned like a coin ↑↓
     

Regarding the photographs, I can take higher-resolution photos of the obverse, reverse, and edge; however, I can't upload them to these URLs because it says "This page has not been published yet." If you'd like, I can upload them here, or I can wait until the pieces are approved and I'll do it myself.

For the third piece, should a sheet be created with its images and characteristics, or should we wait until someone can contribute something more?

 

 

Wait, I'll validate the 2 pages created by Frenchlover, then you'll be able to modify them.

 

The third token (top left) is not a token, not in numista scope.

The eagle is done.

 

The star I doubt the hole is genuine. Looks like a big drill hit. What do you think?

abidbol

Frenchlover

my identification as a Saussine game token is probably wrong.

Le bord cranté, l'attache carrée au centre et des traces de fixation par brasure à l'étain indiquent très probablement qu'il s'agit d'une molette de lampe à pétrole.

“Par terre et par mer” serait un bon nom pour une marque de lampe tempête, mais je n'en trouve pas trace.

You're right

oil lamp "on land and by sea"

Lampe à poser, avec molette gravée "par terre et par mer- GW", et un verre de 3.5 cm de diamètre par 24 cm de hauteur.

Referee of south atlantic islands

abidbol

The star I doubt the hole is genuine. Looks like a big drill hit. What do you think?

 

Sir Arthur Lostley

Well, you had answered in your first message: this hole is post mint damage (PMD). So no page should be created for it. 

 

You can add it in your collection in the page you already found!

We're entering a philosophical debate: Who made the hole? 

Was it the token manufacturer in order to differentiate it from the un-holed tokens, or someone who didn't know what to do with their drill? 

The answer lies in the shape of the hole: it's round and more or less well-drilled. 

Did the manufacturer have a stamping machine with a damaged tool, or did the guy who made the hole simply not know how to make a proper hole? 

If in doubt, I think this token should have its own separate entry :)

Referee of south atlantic islands

The facts are clear: the hole is post mint and is “hand made”. 

Who ever made it or why is not the question yet. 

 

If in doubt = no page. Otherwise we should accept a page for every unidentified modification “because of doubt”…

 

Easy solution for collectors is to indicate the modification in personal comment. 

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