Isle of Man bullion currencies - non-circulating or collector coins ?

Hi, with the recent reorganisation of the Numista categories of coins I received the requests for change of the category for IOM Platina coins: from Non-circulating to Collector coins. I agree that this has a sense because there is any “Platina” coin issued for circulation and according the new definitions this is the case that make the difference:

- Non-circulating: Coins issued by a government with collection or investment purpose, including non-circulating legal tender coins (NCLT). The coins are denominated in a currency which has some circulating coins or banknotes.

-  Collector coins: Coins issued by a government for collection or investment purpose. They were not intended for circulation. The coins are denominated in a currency which doesn’t have circulating coins or banknotes.

Similar applies to gold Angels and platinum Nobles coins also issued by IOM and I guess for some more currencies from other British teritories, like Royal from Gibraltar too.

On the other hand, for the crown (IOM, Gibraltar) and ECU (Gibraltar), I would keep as it is for the moment as there are some circulated coins issued in these currencies.

What do you think about? Should this be changed? If so, can it be done by robot/in mass directly in database by Admins?

I would like to know the opinion (or similar issues solved) regarding this from other users, referees, admins (@Xavier @Jarcek @ArsenEverlast @tdziemia ) and from previous referee@Oklahoman just to be more sure that I will approve/make changes that will be right ones.

Well thought out and logical to make those choices.  I do not know if the robot is available, others may have that answer.

Definitely both bullion & non-circulating medal-coins.

Aidan.

We had definition for collector coins as "officially issued by the country, but the currency is not only non-circulating, but also not-legal tender at all.

Jarcek

We had definition for collector coins as "officially issued by the country, but the currency is not only non-circulating, but also not-legal tender at all.

Collector coins are not legal tender ??

There is nothing about in the guidelines:

So, if collector coins are not legal tender, all these Platina, Angels, Nobles should stay as “non-circulating coins” and not “collector coins”.

That is what we discussed back then, I am not sure if the position shifted or not now. @Xavier , could you clarify please?

I checked all sources I found in the old discussions and I am fairly certain that it was like this:

Non-circulating coin - legal tender (technically exchangeable by a national bank, while often nonsense to do so), officially made by the issuer.

Collector coin - officially made by the issuer, but currency is fictional, non-exchangeable, not legal tender. 

I'm confused now… Should we follow the old discussion on forum or the official definitions in guidelines… or maybe the best is to make the official guidelines more specific to have is 100% sure how to clasify the coins.

@Xavier  are you able to help with this topic?

I meant I looked in old admin discussions, not the forum ones. :)

Just to be sure…

The documentation for Gibraltar in the government circulars and bulletins always made a reference to how many pounds/pence each of their denominations equaled.  I am not sure you can say they were made up and had fantasy values.  While I do not have the exact proofs from Tynwald, Gibraltar and Isle of Man were “clones” in terms of issues.  I think that Tynwald only met once a year to approve things, but the House of Keys meets way for frequently.  I have not had the ease of locating Manx government documents like I have been able to access Gibraltar documents.

Benjamin

I would say these should stay as non-circulating. In any case, I can do the change at once if needed.

Ok, with this interpretation of the coin types, this should staybas non-circulating.

However, I would recommend to precise this in the guidelines.

I will move back the four Platina coins to have them non-circulating.

Hello,

I would stick to the definitions on the page https://en.numista.com/catalogue/types.php

• Non-circulating coins
  Coins issued by a government with collection or investment purpose, including non-circulating legal tender coins (NCLT). They were not intended for circulation. The coins are denominated in a currency which has some circulating coins or banknotes.
• Collector coins
  Coins issued by a government for collection or investment purpose. They were not intended for circulation. The coins are denominated in a currency which doesn’t have circulating coins or banknotes.

The definition of legal tender varies too much from one country to another. It can be ambiguous (e.g. Niue not stating clearly that their coins are denominated in Niue dollar) or tricked (e.g. Uruguay demonetizing their commemorative coins on the day of issue).

Even if the concept of “circulating” can also be subjective and difficult to determine, I believe it works better.

Niue uses New Zealand Dollars.

There's no such thing as a Niuean Dollar.

Aidan.

Regarding the original question, I agree with MMowiec about changing the type of IOM Nobles and Platinas to “collector coins”. They seem to perfectly fit the defintion. However, we still have Mexican Libertads and South African Krugerrands as “non-circulating coins”. Do we want to change them too or shall we adjust the definition?
 

Xavier

Regarding the original question, I agree with MMowiec about changing the type of IOM Nobles and Platinas to “collector coins”. They seem to perfectly fit the defintion. However, we still have Mexican Libertads and South African Krugerrands as “non-circulating coins”. Do we want to change them too or shall we adjust the definition?
 

Krugerrands are classed as bullion coins.

Aidan.

BCNumismatics

Niue uses New Zealand Dollars.

 

There's no such thing as a Niuean Dollar.

 

Aidan.

The New Zealand Mint told me they are Niuean Dollars (see https://en.numista.com/forum/topic146084-4.html#p1217537)

Anyway, if you wish to revive this question, please continue on the other post dedicated to Niue: https://en.numista.com/forum/topic146084-4.html