I have this beautiful commemorative coin and I'm interested to find out what is its numismatic value.
Since I'm not very familiar with the terms: good, fine, extra fine etc. I could use a little assistance on this matter.
And can anyone tell me how to perform assessments and to put a mark G, F, VF etc. on your coin?
P.S. ZuluRaptor, here is the chance for you
"Od Kulina Bana i dobrijeh dana"
"A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing." Oscar Wilde
Цитата: Ban KulinAnd can anyone tell me how to perform assessments and to put a mark G, F, VF etc. on your coin?
P.S. ZuluRaptor, here is the chance for you
The way you add a coin to your collection:
Go to the coin's page.
Find the date, variety, etc.
Find which grade it is (round up (for example, AU turns to MS)).
Put a number in that grade.
And you're done!
This helps with grading. https://en.numista.com/numisdoc/coin-grades-58.html
You mean for me to buy it?No, I didn't mean that. I was looking for some assistance (which you offered previously). And you did it in your next post. Thanks! That was real helpful.
I'm not sure if I want to trade with this coin (probably not).
But that's not the case with my first coin that I posted here (hungary denar). And maybe some others from my collection.
I am still new to this site and I firstly want to see how all this works.
Let me know if there is something special you are looking for.
Regards
"Od Kulina Bana i dobrijeh dana"
"A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing." Oscar Wilde
I could be wrong, but this coin looks cleaned. The high and flat spots are nice and silvery, while the crevices and hard to reach spots are all black and cruddy.
"What we are is not as important as what we aren't"
No real grade, an obvious details grade for the abrasive cleaning that destroyed it. Wouldn't buy it. If I got it for free, I'd quickly try to swap it. Sad condition, typical East European coin characteristics. I can't, in good conscience, add a grade and a value on this type of garbage. Silver content -20% sounds fair.
If you're going to be influenced by sources like Wikipedia, might as well consider all sides...
"Damage of any sort (e.g., holes, edge dents, repairs, cleaning, re-engraving or gouges) can substantially reduce the value of a coin. Specimens are occasionally cleaned or polished in an attempt to pass them off as higher grades or as uncirculated strikes. Because of the substantially lower prices for cleaned or damaged coins, some enthusiasts specialize in their collection." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coin_collecting
Цитата: glorkarI could be wrong, but this coin looks cleaned. The high and flat spots are nice and silvery, while the crevices and hard to reach spots are all black and cruddy.
It might have value if it was cleaned in say, 1900.
Less than melt? The only thing someone would do with that is...
The m-word... (melt down), which is EVIL.
First of all I want to thank you all, for your comments. I really enjoyed reading it.
But I also have a few comments (read-facts):
- I have this coin for about 7 to 8 years in my collection and I've never cleaned it.
- I am pretty sure that it was well preserved before it came to my hands (this coin was part of another numismatic collection).
- I made this photos in a daily conditions. The day was foggy so I turned on the light. There are two sources of light on it - from the bulb and from the window. Reflected light from the window is the reason why you can see some bluish shining on the surface.
- This coin has a nice luster (without cleaning).
- I am 99 percent sure that it is genuine.
P.S.
torontokuba, you would be a good critic of modern art ;)
ZuluRaptor, I will let you know if it was cleaned about 1900, just let me get my time machine
Regards to all
"Od Kulina Bana i dobrijeh dana"
"A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing." Oscar Wilde
Ban Kulin, don't think selling the coin for melt value - 20%.
The cheapest one i saw was 20 euro, that's melt value+ 100% and the coin was in an awful state.
Take care.
Torontokuba you say this coin is garbage but your swap list says otherwise.
I truly do think this was cleaned. I would say not recently, but probably within 50 years. After all, it was in circulation for a long time before it was in any sort of collection. The first person to collect it may have been the one to clean it too.
"What we are is not as important as what we aren't"
Цитата: kommodoreBan Kulin, don't think selling the coin for melt value - 20%.
The cheapest one i saw was 20 euro, that's melt value+ 100% and the coin was in an awful state.
Take care.
Torontokuba you say this coin is garbage but your swap list says otherwise.
Thanks for the support, kommodore!
I'll be careful.
"Od Kulina Bana i dobrijeh dana"
"A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing." Oscar Wilde
Цитата: Ban Kulin- This coin has a nice luster (without cleaning).
I must say, you would make a great comedian.
My swap list contains coins received from clueless and half blind individuals, who give regular grades and regular values to cleaned coins. I try to get rid of these specimens that are sent my way, as soon as they arrive in a destroyed and cleaned condition. There are plenty of Europeans who destroy and continue to acquire cleaned coins, while living under the delusion, that their collection has a grade or value.
You'll also notice that in my swap list, cleaned non-silver coins have no value. I toss them in for free in a swap. I see them as junk.
Цитата: glorkarI truly do think this was cleaned. I would say not recently, but probably within 50 years. After all, it was in circulation for a long time before it was in any sort of collection. The first person to collect it may have been the one to clean it too.
Well, you have the right to have an opinion.
"Od Kulina Bana i dobrijeh dana"
"A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing." Oscar Wilde
Цитата: Ban Kulin- This coin has a nice luster (without cleaning).
I must say, you would make a great comedian.
My swap list contains coins received from clueless and half blind individuals, who give regular grades and regular values to cleaned coins. I try to get rid of these specimens that are sent my way, as soon as they arrive in a destroyed and cleaned condition. There are plenty of Europeans who destroy and continue to acquire cleaned coins, while living under the delusion, that their collection has a grade or value.
You'll also notice that in my swap list, cleaned non-silver coins have no value. I toss them in for free in a swap. I see them as junk.
Thanks for the compliment!
Are you interested to work in pair with me?
Like Stanlio&Olio
"Od Kulina Bana i dobrijeh dana"
"A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing." Oscar Wilde
The comedy routine you've got going, where you provide photos of an "uncleaned coin" and kommodore provides value assessment and actual grade, is priceless. Why mess with such perfection and experience?
torontokuba has a record here, got banned, insults stuff like this.
He has few swaps and only have 1$ coins for swap but he likes to act as a knower.
So don't mind him Ban Kulin.
The comedy routine you've got going, where you provide photos of an "uncleaned coin" and kommodore provides value assessment and actual grade, is priceless. Why mess with such perfection and experience?
Good luck to both of you.
Thanks!
Also for your posts and comments.
Good luck to you, too.
"Od Kulina Bana i dobrijeh dana"
"A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing." Oscar Wilde
I don't know much at all, but, I do know one thing for sure, when you get a chance, buy some "quality" coins for "fair" prices from kommodore. He'll show you the way...
Цитата: Ban Kulin1 I have this coin for about 7 to 8 years in my collection and I've never cleaned it.
2 I am pretty sure that it was well preserved before it came to my hands (this coin was part of another numismatic collection).
3 I made this photos in a daily conditions. The day was foggy so I turned on the light. There are two sources of light on it - from the bulb and from the window. Reflected light from the window is the reason why you can see some bluish shining on the surface.
4 I am 99 percent sure that it is genuine.
1. It could have been cleaned a long time ago.
2. Doesn't mean said person took care of it (not a bad "tone of voice")(insert roll eyes emote/huge smiley face here)
3. I think it's cleaned because most of it is fine and silvery, but the recesses have the black stuff.
4. If it were fake, they wouldn't make it seem cleaned.
I actually like the way the cleaning looks, I'd pay 30 dollars max for this.
Gentlemen, please retire to a neutral corner until I've finished lecturing you.
Has there ever been so many misunderstandings in so few paragraphs in the history of the internet?
First of all, the coin. Yes it's been cleaned. Not recently and not too harshly but cleaned it undeniably is. Just like 75% or more of the vintage coins circulating in numismatic circles. I'm pretty relaxed about such matters so I'd be happy to own it, 'kuba is a purist and sees the matter differently. We respectfully differ on the matter, argue vigorously about it, and when we are done we switch the conversation to something else and remain friends.
See how easy that was?
Forget about "cleaned" coins (Torontokuba, this doesn't apply to you - see above), the phrase you are looking for is "incorrectly cleaned". This is the term used by grading companies when they put a coin in a "details" slab. They can't use "cleaned" because each of the two main grading outfits has a subsidiary company which cleans coins which they are then happy to grade. They call it conserving rather than cleaning but that's just clever semantics.
In more sensible times a cleaned coin wasn't given a grade, it was returned to the person submitting it in a little plastic bag - body bagged. Now considering that the above figure of 75% is correct, that's a whole lot of business the grading shysters are losing. So they come out with the concept of "details grade", where a coin which would previously have been declined a grade because of improper cleaning or environmental damage would now be graded as though these factors simply didn't exist.
The slabbed coin now enters the market is a nice looking plastic slab just like a coin without issues. The only difference is instead of saying EF it says EF details. There is a code somewhere on the slab which you can look up to find out exactly what the problem is but how many new collectors know this or even know what EF details means? These are the people who are being conned into buying problem coins at full price because NGC have given it a grade. It's despicable and causes much confusion.
Back to the coin again, I've seen far worse than this slabbed by TPGs as issue free, none of that details nonsense. It's hit and miss, you could submit a borderline problem coin like this and get different results. Is anyone naïve enough to believe that the TPGs are not certifying cleaned coins which are submitted via their own cleaning / conservation subsidiaries?
5 years ago the purists would have been correct, today it's debatable. As we don't any longer seem capable of having a debate it's probably best discussed elsewhere, a different forum maybe.
The waters have been muddied by corporate greed and the collectors are left to deal with the matter as best they can. Ill tempered attempts to provoke other members into getting banned are not the way forward. That's sooooo 2013. Torontokuba's swap list reflects the fact that he is no longer actively swapping via Numista, why would he update it? Cheap shot and completely irrelevant however I'm not here to support him or denounce him. He's a big boy and can take care of himself.
Just for the record though, I've completed several drama free swaps with my purist friend, mostly centered around coins which don't meet his standards and dirty grubby coins which he loves and I don't. The point being that we have turned an argument into a mutually beneficial arrangement instead of shrieking for each other to be banned. And yes, when valuing problem coins he puts his money where his mouth is to the point where I have to bully him into accepting more.
Finally, Ban Kulin, may I welcome you to Numista. I trust your future interactions will be better.
Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!
When I first saw the photo, the coin looked to me like it might have served as a dish for an SOS pad, next to the kitchen sink. For me, at some point this was a coin. Now, it is nothing more than a polished disc. There are plenty of polished disc collectors and salesmen among us. If they can't represent this kind of coin as "nice luster (without cleaning)" and "60$, VF-XF", imagine what kind of a hit their sales and the value of their collection would take.
If it helps you sleep at night, I will pretend the coin pictured above is uncleaned and more valuable than it actually is. Great find, beautiful natural luster and patina. No sign of cleaning anywhere. Looks like a true VF-XF example. I hope new members continue to learn from the expertise offered on Numista. Didn't mean to interrupt the learning and teaching process with my WRONG opinion. Please resume your education and valuation tactics...
Thank you all for your comments,
pnightingale, thanks for the welcome!
Apologize to everyone for any inconvenience from my side.
I think that this forum is great and everyone has a right to have a personal opinion. I'm always open for constructive dialogue.
Finally, I've had a few more comments on the subject, but I have more important things to do
(like cleaning and polishing of my coins ).
"Od Kulina Bana i dobrijeh dana"
"A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing." Oscar Wilde
Цитата: Ban KulinFinally, I've had a few more comments on the subject, but I have more important things to do
(like cleaning and polishing of my coins ).
Цитата: dptashnyThis thread is a sad example of Numista's downfall. A new member asking for helps ends up in this kind of fight? Terrible if you ask me!
Good luck with that. 
