After much thought and a little soul searching, I think it's highly inappropriate. It seems that the current climate in America demands that everything should be about race. Quite a sad state of affairs if you ask me.
The concept of liberty was birthed in Greece by some of history's greatest minds, it was given real life by the American and French revolutions and given physical form when the French people gave us our most famous icon, The Statue of Liberty. It's a European concept developed as the philosophical cornerstone of the newly created USA by the Founders who were also 100% white. Thus Lady Liberty was white.
Before any retard tries to introduce race into the equation let me point out that the two best loved American series, the Indian Head cents and Buffalo nickels both feature minorities front and center as do the popular Sacajawea dollars and several commemorative half dollars. It's quite normal and right for a country to recognize it's component parts but only where appropriate. Replacing the traditional Liberty with an African American seems equally unjustified as honoring Martin Luther King with a statue of Hulk Hogan.
Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
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PC gone mad, not that it wasn't already mind, imagine if you did decide to depict a famous African American as a white person there would be hell on.
I dont see what the need is to "tinker" with historic creatures etc some sort of complex about what their forefathers did I guess. Just leave things alone. You can't go changing history in this sense !
I'm with you on this one. Besides, diversity and multiculturalism aren't limited to just race. If they want a coin that reflects the diversity of people in this country, they should find/create a modern symbol for it, instead of mutilating an ancient one for what seems to have no other purpose than to please a minority group.
Hey, maybe they should make a whole series of Lady Liberties so everyone has a coin they can relate to!
The statue of Liberty is based on the Roman Goddess Libertas, so she is Roman, and a female. Surely that can't change?
Replacing the image under the word liberty is fine, as with the Sacagawea dollar wouldn't be an issue, as there have been many images under the word.
But to replace Liberty herself is wrong in my opinion.
The image on the proposed coin looks like she's in a toga as well, so they're at least keeping a link to the original.
But I don't see the point in changing Liberty to a black girl in corn-rows just to reflect "the racial and ethnic diversity of 21st century America".
Surely you can't show diversity by changing a Roman Goddess to a generic black lady. Why not change it to a Mexican man? That would show both racial and gender diversity.
Why not go the whole hog, have a one-legged, gay Mario, in a spikey tiara. Diversity in disability, gender and sexual preference. He's a self-employed, Italian-American immigrant.
If this gets approved, who knows what they're going to do with Britannia over here?
Maybe we'll see Alan Carr in a robe and shield?
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I'm not an expert in any kind of coins, but I reckon I'm good at research and will do my best to help. Feel free to tell me my identifications/valuations/gradings are wrong. It's the only way I'll learn.
If anyone knows about liberty it's a race that didn't have it for several hundered years and then finally received it, rather than a race that has always had it. I have no issues with this.
Цитата: "neilithic"If anyone knows about liberty it's a race that didn't have it for several hundered years and then finally received it, rather than a race that has always had it. I have no issues with this.
It was mostly white men who fought and died so that black men could have their liberty.
I find other races than Caucasian make a huge meal about everything being "Equal". They are hypocrites with double standards.
For example : a black African American receives a racist based slur.
They get severely offended......Then use this in public to get what they want and use the racist card if they don't get it.
African American makes a racist based slur towards a Caucasian........ They don't get offended or demand anything. But even so, does it make it ok for them to do it but not receive it the same way?
My thoughts are why they find it acceptable to insult Caucasians like it is normal, yet flip out when it is done the other way around. The past is the past, it can't be changed. But society now HAS changed immensely and does not reflect those era's. Playing the racist/slave card is getting old and authority figures need to stand up and let all races know they cannot use a racist based "Equality" card.
Being equal is not demanding anything from the other, that is hypocritical.
Equal means neither have the right to force anything upon the other over race.
As Mark said, Political Correctness gone mad and race fuelled reasons abused to obtain what they want.
I am not racist in the slightest, everyone is human and that is the only race I view.
Certain religion falls into this category as well, but I wont go into that.
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Цитата: "neilithic"If anyone knows about liberty it's a race that didn't have it for several hundered years and then finally received it, rather than a race that has always had it. I have no issues with this.
It was mostly white men who fought and died so that black men could have their liberty.
I don't think that anyone here is denying that diversity needs to be shown and embraced, and that history needs to be remembered, both sides.
I think the topic here is the "modernising" of a well known and well loved icon. Not what the icon stands represents, as that will never change, but what the icon physically looks like. Changing Liberty from looking like a Roman Goddess, to a black girl who looks like she's going to a toga party, is quite an extreme change.
If someone decided to change the image slightly, maybe give her a nose job, or a boob job to make her look a little more like a "Modern American", then I think a number of people would be opposed, why is this any different?
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I'm not an expert in any kind of coins, but I reckon I'm good at research and will do my best to help. Feel free to tell me my identifications/valuations/gradings are wrong. It's the only way I'll learn.
Цитата: "neilithic"If anyone knows about liberty it's a race that didn't have it for several hundered years and then finally received it, rather than a race that has always had it. I have no issues with this.
It was mostly white men who fought and died so that black men could have their liberty.
Fighting so someone else can be free does not mean that you understand what it's like not to have liberty yourself.....and besides
Цитата: "BizzoDoes"... why is this any different?
For me, it's different because when I think about "modernizing" ancient symbols, the one example that comes to mind is the Nazis and their use of swastikas. What they used it for is NOT was that ancient symbol stands for, and I feel the same way about the proposed black liberty design.
Цитата: "neilithic"Fighting so someone else can be free does not mean that you understand what it's like not to have liberty yourself.....and besides
Do you mean to tell me that African Americans who live today and have never experienced slavery first-hand understand it better than you and I? .... and that's why I said "mostly".
What I was trying to say is that a free black woman is probably a better symbol for liberty because of the history of the black race moving from slavery to liberty.
If you want a symbol to celebrate women's suffrage you would likely choose the women that were fighting for the right to vote rather than the politicians the eventually voted to give it to them.
I believe Lady Liberty should be left alone because of historical value. She is an enduring symbol of "independence". There are countless other ways to symbolize "diversity", which are slowly woven into the fabric of history.
It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure, that just ain't so. Mark Twain
I get you but at the same time you wouldn't alter a historical figure to depict them you would create a whole new figure. It's always going to be a contentious issue when people want to modernise these things. I've seen some pictures of Britannia that are poor like some of the helmets are terrible !
Maybe they could do a liberty series similar to the presidential dollars, but depicting all the 300+ ethnicities in the US. As far as who fights for freedom just look at the diversity in the armed forces. It is not just white people, and if it comes to white why not show the difference in German Americans, Irish Americans, Polish Americans, and even white Hispanic Americans (like yours truly). I thought it was liberty and justice for all not liberty and justice for whites.
Цитата: "Mark240590"I get you but at the same time you wouldn't alter a historical figure to depict them you would create a whole new figure. It's always going to be a contentious issue when people want to modernise these things. I've seen some pictures of Britannia that are poor like some of the helmets are terrible !
Lady liberty is a symbol, not a depiction of an actual historical person, why does it matter what the face looks like? It's not like the guys who came up with the lady of liberty said "Oh by the way guys, this symbol of freedom, it can never be a black chick, that would just be wrong" Look at all the different ways she's been depicted
None of them look the same, so what's the problem with
I generally agree with neilithic. Lady Liberty is an allegorical, symbolic figure. She can look like anyone, and the symbolism of a Black Liberty is arguably more significant than another Caucasian face. Only 65% of the US population is non-Hispanic White, and the trend is for that to decrease further. There's no valid reason other ethnicities can't have a turn on the coins.
Цитата: "neilithic"I saw a phrase the other day that I think sums it up beautifully "White people have lived with privilege so long that equality feels like oppression"
surely the phrase would be 'white heterosexual men' as that's the politically correct term these days.
In my eyes, the truth is, everybody has been oppressed at some time or another; and looking to the past for symbolism of liberty or examples of tyranny is an exercise in futility.
The Spanish were probably the worst oppressors, but suffered oppression themselves at various times. Jews are by far the most consistently oppressed group, but participated in the slave trade. Muslims oppress and get oppressed. Oppression over time for me is indiscriminate, everybody does it, and everybody has suffered from it. Nobody has monopoly on oppression. You'd be hard pressed to identify a single racial or social group who has neither oppressed others or been oppressed. I don't think anybody has a right to long passed 'historical' claims of oppression to leverage benefit for a specific SIG, any more than anybody has a right to ignore empirical evidence of current oppression.
The subject of world war II reparations in the current climate is a bit sticky, and not really 'historical' yet, and I'm not saying that the claims of Greece etc are invalid or expressing any view on that in this post.
That said, I believe in equality of opportunity. It'd be kinda cool to have a black girl liberty coin, so why the hell not? It's hardly a big deal. I wouldn't collect it unless it looked good and was of a reasonable price, but many would. I think it'd be cool if women were allowed to play in mens sports too, and if lesbians/gays didn't heavily discriminate against transexuals, but the world aint perfect.
Цитата: "Mark240590"I get you but at the same time you wouldn't alter a historical figure to depict them you would create a whole new figure. It's always going to be a contentious issue when people want to modernise these things. I've seen some pictures of Britannia that are poor like some of the helmets are terrible !
Lady liberty is a symbol, not a depiction of an actual historical person, why does it matter what the face looks like? It's not like the guys who came up with the lady of liberty said "Oh by the way guys, this symbol of freedom, it can never be a black chick, that would just be wrong" Look at all the different ways she's been depicted
None of them look the same, so what's the problem with
Some of the comments make me cringe, but this one... bravo! I couldn't put it better myself. It makes me feel hopeful when people think logically, backed with history and facts as you have done. Why would a personification have to be tied to race just because it is borrowed from the greeks/romans. The concept and the spirit behind it does not suffer at all; if anything it is enhanced! I don't mean to push back or argue with anyone who doesn't share this view, but I felt morally obliged to appreciate your comment :-)
I still think it is wrong to alter it now because it is world renowned the way it is now. If those requesting change were not African American then there wouldn't be so much hype around it and the request would probably be denied without it making the tabloids. Race should never be used to gain and neither should history.
Humans once would beat their wives, murder without remorse, would travel to new lands and enslave anyone they could find, race and colour irrelevant. They also work their children to death as far up to the Victorian times. This is never brought up as a counter argument to slavery. The world used to be a nasty ignorant ball of greedy and power hungry uneducated people, who did some very sick things to other humans.
Why should the statue be black, white, Chinese, Mongolian...etc.? all have unique appearance, but Black always seems to grab the most attention and is powered with fear of sounding racist (Even though African Americans are openly racist towards Caucasians like they have a right to be)
To me, it doesn't matter what changes are made as long as it is not about fear of offending, or the use of historic evil events that took place in a time where people had little regard for another life, whatever the race or skin colour.
What is next? give her a penis for the rights and equality for trans-gender people?
It is all a bit silly really.
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What makes you think people thought it was ok? More than likely, that design had its share of opposition.
Another view of that design is that "...the facial features of the "Indian" are essentially Caucasian, meaning that a White woman wears the headdress of a Native American man" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Head_cent), which would make your entire argument void.
Anyhow, that's history. We can talk about it, but we can't change it.
Not void at all, the features are supposedly caucasian because he didn't have a native American model so he used a statue of Venus as a model. It's known as the "Indian head cent" people don't look at it and say "Oh look, it's a white woman in a hat" There may have been opposition to it at the time, but now it's widely accepted, if fact it's one of the most popular designs, I don't see too many people seething saying "How dare they sully our lady liberty by having her as an indian. I daresay when the black liberty coin comes out it will be the same, some people will whinge and moan but eventually they'll get over themselves.
Also, historical figures of other ethnicities have been portrayed by white people for ages as this hilarious piece from John Oliver points out, it's about time one when the other way.
You can't change history my friends and trying to rewrite it is just folly. To me at least this proposal is just a cheap attempt to redress ancient wrongs by mere symbolism. Like it or not we (Americans of all races) enslaved other humans (of all races) for profit and ended up on the wrong side of history. It's done and can't be undone. I consider it to be patronising and even slightly offensive to think that putting a black woman on a coin makes any real difference. We've had Indians on our coins for over 150 years and still treat them appallingly.
If you want to make amends for slavery then go start a program to get black kids out of the ghetto and into school, end the drug culture and restore family unity. Putting a black chick on the face of a coin just doesn't cut it.
Liberty isn't about ending slavery. If it was the world would have been perfect since Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation. It certainly isn't about race, you can't make one group more free by suppressing the rights of another. Liberty can't be applied selectively, we are either all free or none.
Liberty is a white Western European concept with it's origins in the Age of Reason / Enlightenment. Thomas Paine was white as were the great European philosophers of the 18th and 19th centuries. To consider this to be a black versus white issue is to fail to understand how the world really is as opposed to how we wish it to be. During the same period that Europeans were developing the concept of Liberty, Japan and China were both building successful nations using a form of Feudalism - the polar opposite of Liberty. Africans, where left to their own devices and free from European imposed systems, were universally opting for Tribalism. Shaka Zulu was in relative terms just as successful as Alexander. Local people develop local solutions which work for THEM.
When the country of Liberia was founded as a destination for the newly freed American slaves one of the first things the new rulers did was to make the local Africans into their slaves. No, experiencing the lack of freedom does not qualify anyone to have a special understanding of it.
To pretend that the rest of the world were basically white people trapped inside brown skins who would cheerfully adopt our superior customs and philosophy just as soon as a clever white man explained it to them is the height of cultural insensitivity.
In purely numismatic terms it's a very pleasing design but the agenda behind it is despicable.
Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!
To be fair I never knew that lady liberty had so many variants anyway. I've never been interested in American coins. I assumed they all looked like the Statue of Liberty.
Цитата: "Mark240590"To be fair I never knew that lady liberty had so many variants anyway. I've never been interested in American coins. I assumed they all looked like the Statue of Liberty.
It's a device used by many countries. Argentina struck some really beautiful series using pretty much the same theme and of course France.
It's a type of symbolism which I like very much, a female form representing a concept or trying to capture the spirit of a nation. My favorites are The Sower, Liberty, Helvetica and of course our very own Britannia.
Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!
How the hell is liberty a white western European concept? Wherever people are oppressed you'll find people searching for liberty "Ley my people go!" in the bible for one. When the Jews gained their independence from their oppressors, the Greeks hadn't even learned to tie their togas.
You mention the French revolution, many of the French revolutionaries were also fighting for the freedom of blacks at the same time they were fighting against the aristocracy. They belonged to an organisation called Society of the Friends of Blacks. There was also the society of freed slaves that were fighting for equal rights for blacks during the revolution. One revolutionary wrote "Why are Black people enslaved? The color of people's skin only suggests a slight difference. There is no discord between day and night, the sun and the moon and between the stars and dark sky. All is varied; it is the beauty of nature. Why destroy nature's work?" The motto of the revolution was not Liberty, Equality and Brotherhood....unless you're black. Black people were being elected into public office in France as early as the mid 1800s.
Liberty is a symbol, it does not matter if the figure is black, white, red, yellow or anything in between, as long as you have a female figure with a liberty headdress, she is Liberty. Just like it does not matter if the fasces symbol is made of willow, pine, spruce, oak or anything else, as long as you have some sticks tied together you have a fasces.
Personally it seems ridiculous to me to say "us white guys came up with the idea of liberty, this liberty isn't for everyone, you can only have liberty if you are white" It's like saying "Hey, we've fought off the oppression of the English and come up with the notion of liberty, let's celebrate by enslaving a whole race of people and oppressing them for a century or so...hooray, cotton plantations for everyone". America didn't have true liberty until all her people were free, which was after the abolition of slavery, which is why it is fitting to have a black liberty.
No I'm not. Liberty is the freedom to think or act as you want and not be controlled by a government or other group of people.
The American concept of Liberty was based around the idea that there are no monarchy, not hereditary titles, all men are created equal, and all have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. How can you then say that America had liberty when slavery by definition goes against the very concept of liberty the forefathers had just "invented"? All men are created equal (except the blacks, they're basically animals), all men are entitled to life liberty and happiness (except the blacks who get death, bondage and misery)
As I said earlier, Liberty, did not occur until everyone had the same rights as everyone else, which did not happen until the abolition of slavery and black people were also allowed the same rights as every other citizen.
Yes Neil, you are. A citizen living under a dictatorship has freedom in the sense that he isn't a slave. However he doesn't have liberty. Two entirely different things. Blacks had freedom shortly after the Civil War but they didn't experience Liberty until 1964 and the Civil Rights legislation.
You make it sound as though I'm guilty of endorsing slavery by embracing liberty. That isn't my position at all.
I'd like very much for both freedom and liberty to be available to anyone, anywhere who wants it. By recognising that there are parts of the world which see their society best served by other options doesn't mean the same as saying they can't have it. Just because I think it's the best option (strong libertarian, that's me) doesn't mean that every culture needs to embrace the same ideals if they have a better system which works for them at a local level.
Cultural misappropriation is a deplorable attempt to relieve white guilt by meaningless, empty gestures. It makes people feel better and has the benefit of not costing anything.
Do you think it would be appropriate for Japan to represent their uniquely feudal past by issuing a coin with an 11th century English peasant as it's theme?
Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!
"But it turns out that the model used to represent Lady Liberty by Augustus Saint Gaudens for his celebrated designs for the $20 and $10 gold coins of 1907 and the model for Adolph Weinman’s Walking Liberty half dollar was actually black and was the same person.
Her name was Henrietta (“Hettie”) Eugenia Anderson, born in 1873 in Columbia, South Carolina, who spent most of her life in the part of New York City known as Harlem.
Her identity as the real model for Liberty on these iconic designs by the two most celebrated sculptors in our history was largely hidden until the 1980’s, and it is believed that Saint Gaudens wife and only son played a major role in suppressing that information."
Цитата: "pnightingale"A citizen living under a dictatorship has freedom in the sense that he isn't a slave. However he doesn't have liberty.
Yes I know, as I said in the last post when I stated "Liberty is the freedom to think or act as you want and not be controlled by a government or other group of people." Those in a dictatorship are controlled by the government and therefore do not have liberty.
I'm not saying that you endorse slavery, what I'm saying is that the fact you suggest that the symbol of the lady of liberty is white and should never be black because it was invented by white people is really flawed logic.
Yes it may have been a bunch of white people that came up with the symbol, but it is still a symbol, and it does not matter if it is black white or an other colour, what matters is what she represents, which is liberty. Although America touted the concept of liberty, it did not exist while they in turn oppressed another group. Black people did not have liberty, they do now, what is wrong with having a black symbol of Liberty to reflect that?
Here's an example for you that goes the other way. Jesus was Hebrew, he was middle-eastern and he probably looked something like this
When Europeans turned to Christianity they depicted him as they imagined, many wouldn't have seen middle eastern people so he is always depicted as a Caucasian male. Does it matter that white people turned a middle eastern man into a white guy? No. Because it is what he stood for that matters. Same with Liberty, it doesn't matter if she is black or white, as long as she represents liberty.
This is from the original article Phil linked to: ..."high relief $100 gold coin and silver medal..."
How much is one of these coins going to cost? I can't believe this will be affordable to many of us.
Цитата: "JRo69"This is from the original article Phil linked to: ..."high relief $100 gold coin and silver medal..."
How much is one of these coins going to cost? I can't believe this will be affordable to many of us.
Based on the current US Mint pricing model, probably in the neighborhood of $1600 for a 1 oz $100 gold coin, and $55 for a dollar-sized silver medal.
One thing I meant to add in the OP but as so often these days, I forgot. :((((
My concerns about cultural inappropriateness are not restricted to a black chick on a US coin. Liberia used to produce high quality coins with "African" themes. The black woman on the silver 10, 25 and 50 cents coins is very striking. The cents with the African elephant are also very appropriate to the setting of post colonial Africa. That period during which Africa briefly flourished is surely one of the most rewarding of numismatic experiences.
Imagine the pride a young African would have felt as his nation emerged from the shadow of colonialism and into self governance. The old currencies with long dead white Kings and Queens replaced by images of people who looked just like he did and images he could relate to in his everyday life. Coins celebrating those early steps must have really meant something. The average Kenyan probably never got to see Jomo Kenyatta but he could see the man every day on the coinage.
Now many African coins feature US Presidents and commemorate obscure US or European events. Many countries have debased their coins into nasty things with the same quality as a car wash token or have even given up issuing their own currency and simply use American money. How corrosive to the morale and confidence of a young nation do you imagine that is?
Now I'm not suggesting that Africa's many problems can be solved just by striking a few coins with black folks and lions. What I'm saying is that all cultures are important and should be respected and encouraged to flourish. That includes white European culture. Simply making an empty gesture of bolting an African image onto a European philosophy just for the sake of it is just meaningless, patronising tokenism.
If you wish to support, nurture and encourage minority cultures then good for you. I'll be right alongside you. I might not fully understand or even particularly like such exotic fare but I still think it's important to preserve it, warts and all. However if you intend to try to absorb them into mainstream culture by academic falsehoods, you can count me out.
The Romans were very flexible when it came to dealing with other cultures. They absorbed them and reshaped them and the local gods and festivals were simply reassigned to the closest Roman match. That's cultural imperialism at work. Eventually the result is always the same. The dominant culture devours the local version which after just a few generations disappears forever. When did you last meet a Druid?
I prefer historical integrity over "feel-good" gestures.
Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!
I guess the difference is that I don't see "Liberty" as being a representation of America's white European heritage, but as a living symbol of our aspirations and ideals. Those ideals embrace all of our people - 13% of whom happen to be black.
Just to clarify something I may have just realised and feel a little ...well, not a little...a lot
are we talking about the statue of liberty or liberty on coins?
If it is on coins, then I don't see why it is an issue. I would only suggest there be both a new liberty design along side the new African American, like both ethnicities co-existing as one.
Lets face it, liberty has some pretty damn ugly designs, like the Morgan Dollar, she looks like a man.
Liberty stands for freedom, oppressing any race because it depicts someone who was not free when Liberty was first designed (well they were free until the white man thought of them as slaves), does not mean they shouldn't be on it.
Like it or not, African Americans are a massive part of the US now and deserve to be shown they are no longer the minority against Caucasian Americans.
There should be only one race that is referred to in our future, that is the Human Race.
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Цитата: "Fluke"Just to clarify something I may have just realised and feel a little ...well, not a little...a lot
are we talking about the statue of liberty or liberty on coins?
If it is on coins, then I don't see why it is an issue. I would only suggest there be both a new liberty design along side the new African American, like both ethnicities co-existing as one.
Lets face it, liberty has some pretty damn ugly designs, like the Morgan Dollar, she looks like a man.
Liberty stands for freedom, oppressing any race because it depicts someone who was not free when Liberty was first designed (well they were free until the white man thought of them as slaves), does not mean they shouldn't be on it.
Like it or not, African Americans are a massive part of the US now and deserve to be shown they are no longer the minority against Caucasian Americans.
There should be only one race that is referred to in our future, that is the Human Race.
Hahaham, you thought they were going to paint the statue of liberty in black gloss or something?
"When Europeans turned to Christianity they depicted him as they imagined, many wouldn't have seen middle eastern people so he is always depicted as a Caucasian male. Does it matter that white people turned a middle eastern man into a white guy? No. Because it is what he stood for that matters. Same with Liberty, it doesn't matter if she is black or white, as long as she represents liberty."
In the entire Bible there is no one word describing what Jesus looked like, yet the Bible tells us who he exactly is. We are all made after an image and likeness of God, so from the theological aspect we all look like God. For example next time when you get on the street, look around yourself and that is what Jesus looks like"
However, me being interested in Iconography, I found out that all cultures depicted Jesus looking like them. Greek Jesus has brown hair and eyes, Arab Jesus has a long nose, European Jesus is light skinned and with blue eyes. The point is He is like us. He is not a stranger or an alien but just like us. In that sense, there is nothing wrong with pictures of Black Jesus.
I very much agree with you when you say "it doesn't matter if she is black or white, as long as she represents liberty."
However I don't like political correctness. I think that it is idiotic. I personally have nothing agains black lady liberty, but the reason why this idea is pushed is annoying to me. I think in that sense Phil would agree with me and I would agree with him.
I would like to add a brief message of thanks to every single person who has participated in the discussion to date.
We are having a very thoughtful and well presented debate on both sides, with no name calling, playing of the race card, juvenile demands for the banishment of anyone with a different viewpoint or feigned butthurt. It's like a breath of fresh air.
So well done everyone, keep it up. We can disagree without getting ugly about it.
Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!
Цитата: "Jesse11"I generally agree with neilithic. Lady Liberty is an allegorical, symbolic figure. She can look like anyone, and the symbolism of a Black Liberty is arguably more significant than another Caucasian face. Only 65% of the US population is non-Hispanic White, and the trend is for that to decrease further. There's no valid reason other ethnicities can't have a turn on the coins.
Handzumgrus, don't forget these commemorative half dollars from the 1940s and 1950s, honoring Booker T. Washington and George Washington Carver:
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces4400.html
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces11591.html
There have been some more modern commemorative silver dollars, as well.
But this coins are from the fifties. And i would say, it is about time to see people like this two on realy circulating coins.
The state of Liberty itself will stay as she is.
But how we design an alegory on a coin or elsewhere, is up to us or up to the designers.
A piece of courage by designing coins is good, i think.
Цитата: "Pajaskot"
However I don't like political correctness. I think that it is idiotic. I personally have nothing agains black lady liberty, but the reason why this idea is pushed is annoying to me. I think in that sense Phil would agree with me and I would agree with him.
well said, l really dont care about the coin, its an ok design and could be better, and l find beautiful black wemon very beautiful and l believe in equal rites, l believe there is only one race, the human race. However, having grown up in and worked with many black people. I can tell you the general attitude of black culture is very negative towards white people. There are very good hard-working black people around but for the most part "black culture" here in the states is sour. Many blacks in my area can be some of the most racist, mean, bigoted people I've ever met in my life. Its politicaly ok for them to be that way, and if another black person tries to do well and be successful they are scolded and torn down by other blacks, and called White lovers. It's very easy for some of you guys to comment on this but you've never lived in this culture.
Taking a break from swapping for a while, but still interested in pre 1799 Spanish coins, I will make time for that!
...well, not a little...a lot
