1893-S is kind of a "King of the Morgan" and is pretty expensive indeed; only 100,000 were minted and major part has been melted down. 1 obverse die and 2 reverse dies were used for this 1893-S.
This is also one of the most counterfeit Morgan dollars. Then no offense but my first question is: Are you sure it's a real one? Here or here are some distinctive details of the obverse die to make sure it's the real deal; main one being the raised die mark crossing the T of LIBERTY.
If it's the real deal, then nice one for $170!! Here is a G4 sold 2 months ago for $2,000 (including fees). If you find an MS65 then you got over half a million in hand (record dates back to 2014 around $650,000)
Sapientiae plerumque stultitia est comes.
Si c'est un grand plaisir d'être reconnu par ses amis, c'est peut-être encore plus flatteur d'être reconnu par ses adversaires.
Be yourself; everyone else is already taken.
Get the coin checked.... 1893s is the wow of morgans.... maybe I am just suspicious but does the s look odd? I'm sure some of the experts out there may say there are other more important things to look for. Either way I hope it's real..... a win for a numista member i believe the most expensive Morgan is 1895. Hard to check on my phone.... Either way good luck.
Well Loruca, I think I will be giving him some more money. I try to pay people more than a coin shop would. (That's easy for me because our coin shop is full of crooks) But I met with him after about four months of trying, he kept canceling. I met with him at a gas station and he had a big bag of coins. I had to price them all out on my phone and after a while my eyes started to cross. looking at my phone I read the prices for the P mark by mistake instead of the S mark.
Taking a break from swapping for a while, but still interested in pre 1799 Spanish coins, I will make time for that!
Цитата: "redsmithstudios" I think I will be giving him some more money. I try to pay people more than a coin shop would. (That's easy for me because our coin shop is full of crooks) ...... looking at my phone I read the prices for the P mark by mistake instead of the S mark.
Wow. I love dealing with people like you. Thats a nice thing to do. And im sure this fellow will appreciate. In the long run you will gain and protect your integrity at the same time. I thought you bought on ebay or something where its fair game. More people like you in this world would be nice....
Цитата: "redsmithstudios"Well that brings up my next question, what's the best way to sell it? I don't like eBay? I don't really collect Morgan's enough to keep a $2000 coin.
im sure someone here may be interested.... especially if you are willing to sell at a good deal. fast easy and safe.
Цитата: "redsmithstudios"Well that brings up my next question, what's the best way to sell it? I don't like eBay? I don't really collect Morgan's enough to keep a $2000 coin.
im sure someone here may be interested.... especially if you are willing to sell at a good deal. fast easy and safe.
Yea, I can make a good deal, Define good deal? fast, easy, and safe.
Taking a break from swapping for a while, but still interested in pre 1799 Spanish coins, I will make time for that!
Цитата: "redsmithstudios"Well that brings up my next question, what's the best way to sell it? I don't like eBay? I don't really collect Morgan's enough to keep a $2000 coin.
im sure someone here may be interested.... especially if you are willing to sell at a good deal. fast easy and safe.
Yea, I can make a good deal, Define good deal? fast, easy, and safe.
thats should be up to. Im not your guy cause I dont think I can afford either way...
Цитата: "redsmithstudios"One question, if someone were faking this why would they fake it in G? I'll check to see if it's silver later, they don't fake them in silver right?
It's easier to spot a fake on a high grade coin than on a low grade because here's less you have to get right. You take a low grade coin, manipulate the date or mintmark and voila.
For a coin worth that much I would take it into an expert to get it authenticated. Don't rely on a few people on the internet looking at pictures of the coin.
As to selling it, one of the online auction houses like Baldwins or Mowbrays would probably be best, or if you get it valued by an expert then they might buy it off you....although they'd likely pay you way less for it than you would get from an auction house.
The first thing I looked at was the mintmark and it seems kosher enough. Then I checked the last digit of the date and got an awful feeling when it was clearly not aligned properly with the first three. It's raised up noticeably. However the link provided by Steve makes it clear that this is normal. It certainly looks like the real deal.
Ebay isn't a suitable venue for a coin like this. Everyone's going to assume it's a Chinese knock off and bid accordingly. A better class auction house will verify it and give you an idea of how much to expect. I don't know about the others but HA has a form you can submit along with photos for a free evaluation. That's where I'd start. Being a highly sought after US coin you won't have to wait for a specialized auction to come around, there will be plenty of bidders.
Don't rush to hand over any more money. It could turn out to be a $3 fake. Do you think you will get your $170 back if so? The offer was made and accepted in good faith, it's not like you pulled some kind of "Coinsoldier" scam on him. Even if you had spotted the S mint mark, you would be the one taking the gamble on it being genuine. Wait until you have cashed the auctioneer's check and if you made out OK and want to share the good fortune then give him an extra $100 and a bottle of decent whisky. He'll be happy, you can feel rightly good about things and word of mouth will spread bringing in more sellers.
Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!
So you guys recommend and auction house, They would verify it and also get me a decent amount? I've never even looked up an auction house. Which ones would y'all recommend?
Taking a break from swapping for a while, but still interested in pre 1799 Spanish coins, I will make time for that!
Цитата: "Roublizer"Heritage if you want to get the coin submitted by a tpg (they might help you out with that).
Stacks Bowers if you want to leave it ungraded.
That is where I would go if I were selling expensive US coins.
So I would only get it graded if that would increase the profit, so if I could send it to Stacks and Bowers and if they sold it for a good price, that's all I would do. I guess I'll email them all.
Taking a break from swapping for a while, but still interested in pre 1799 Spanish coins, I will make time for that!
Get it verified first because I wouldn't trust it until it was proven to be 100% genuine. Counterfeits are getting shockingly more accurate nowadays. The other alarm bell is cancelling meets and then meeting at a local gas station.
If it is the real deal, then congrats!
Restoration addict : Verdigris Removal : Zinc White spot removal : Iron Rust Removal : Silver brooch/necklace mount Removal
Цитата: "Fluke"Get it verified first because I wouldn't trust it until it was proven to be 100% genuine. Counterfeits are getting shockingly more accurate nowadays. The other alarm bell is cancelling meets and then meeting at a local gas station.
If it is the real deal, then congrats!
As far as the guy I got it from, he was totally legit, he sold me a whole bunch of silver and this was in the lot. He would have taken a lot less than I offers too, I just gave home a really good price for what I thought he had. He got these from his grandmother years ago and they have been sitting. I chose the gas station, and the reason he wouldn't meet is because it just wasn't that important to him.
That brings up another question.....if this has been in some old guys closet for 15 years does that greatly reduce the chance of a fake? Especially when he got it from his grandmother who had it for 20 years before that?
So the provenance is good.
Taking a break from swapping for a while, but still interested in pre 1799 Spanish coins, I will make time for that!
I wouldn't think it would lower the chance of being a forgery. Forgeries have been made for years. I bought some George V rupees off a guy and he guaranteed that they were genuine because they had belonged to his grandfather for over 40 years. I found they were fake and promptly sent them back to get my money back.
According to the link that MarkJ posted, the forgeries for these were made on silver and the forgers used silver dies made from original Morgans. They used the reverse side from a more common date coin, and got a more common date obverse and altered the date.
Still though, it's a good sign that they came from an unmotivated seller along with a bunch of similar coins. I'd be much more wary of a seller who was really keen to grab the cash and run and a lot containing a bunch of fat man dollars.
I'm really hoping it's real, a nice windfall and it couldn't happen to a nicer bloke. Take the family to Disney for a week on the proceeds. Be prepared for disappointment though.
Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!
I completely agree with Phil there, prepare for disappointment. If it turns out to be legit, you have the great surprise of a very nice windfall indeed!
Restoration addict : Verdigris Removal : Zinc White spot removal : Iron Rust Removal : Silver brooch/necklace mount Removal
I don't like grading companies at all, but if I were you, for such an expensive coin, I would sent it to NGC and let it authenticate, especially when you have plans to sell it. If it is genuine you can sell it much easier and for a higher price when it's authenticated and you can recover the cost (50 $?) for authentication.
If it turns out it's a fake you lose that cost but you're sure you didn't sell a fake coin yourself.
Suppose you sell it without letting it authenticate but your buyer does it afterwards and it turns out to be fake. Then you can lose your good name and your good name is much more worth than those 50 $.
Yeah that's pretty much the way I see things too. I very much dislike TPGs for a variety of reasons but we have to accept the world we live in. If half of the potential buyers won't bid on a coin unless it's slabbed then why cut your nose off to spite your face.
I'd do it, I'd totally do it..... and be damned to those who would cry hypocrisy. You know those shouting loudest would do the same. Full speed ahead man and damn the torpedoes.
The European market, being more mature and sophisticated, wouldn't even blink at bidding on a raw coin. US buyers though, they need to have their tiny hands held by big brother. I guess the pioneer spirit and rugged individualism died with Teddy Roosevelt.
Snowflakes.
Non illegitimis carborundum est. Excellent advice for all coins.
Make Numismatics Great Again!
If you just want to guarantee it's real, then send it to ANACS; they will be the least expensive. However, with a coin like this, it's probably worth submitting it to PCGS (it will bring more money in their slab vice NGC).
Anyway, before I sent it in, the guy originally told me he thought it would get $2000 or even more. But now after a long process and lots of communication he said it should get $1500-1600. Perhaps he just doesn't want to get my hopes too high, but I was like.... I could probably have gotten $1500 for it, and not had the fees! Anyway, I would say that they have had good communication and I am certainly happy with their costumer service.
I will let you guys know in August. I won't get paid until September 27th. Hopefully they will get a high price for it and if so I don't mind waiting.
Taking a break from swapping for a while, but still interested in pre 1799 Spanish coins, I will make time for that!
i believe the most expensive Morgan is 1895. Hard to check on my phone.... Either way good luck. 
