Italian tokens - are they on Numista?

I have 3 Italian tokens. I can't find them on Numista or any other catalogue.

Is there a site to determine these tokens?

Nice find !
I just heard about this website yesterday on the French forum : http://collectiondemonnaie.net/postagecurrency/index.html

Great site. Many Thanks, I solved them all.
The are not in Numista?

I don't find them on numista so you can add them.

They will probably need their own category in Italy :
- the French ones are listed under "France > French Notgeld (Stamp coins)"
- the Spanish ones under "Spain (Postage Stamp/Cardboard)"

Цитата: "Cycnos"​I don't find them on numista so you can add them.
​
​They will probably need their own category in Italy :
​- the French ones are listed under "France > French Notgeld (Stamp coins)"
​- the Spanish ones under "Spain (Postage Stamp/Cardboard)"

​Hello,

Please bear in mind those are official, government sanctioned tokens intended for general circulation in place of regular coinage, in contrast to the Italian stamp tokens shown here; which are clearly made, and presumably intended for use only by private companies.

Therefore they should be added to Tokens instead of under Italy.

Цитата: "CassTaylor"​

Цитата: "Cycnos"​I don't find them on numista so you can add them.
​​
​​They will probably need their own category in Italy :
​​- the French ones are listed under "France > French Notgeld (Stamp coins)"
​​- the Spanish ones under "Spain (Postage Stamp/Cardboard)"

​​Hello,
​
​Please bear in mind those are official, government sanctioned tokens intended for general circulation in place of regular coinage, in contrast to the Italian stamp tokens shown here; which are clearly made, and presumably intended for use only by private companies.
​
​Therefore they should be added to Tokens instead of under Italy.

Hi Cass I don't really seem to understand the difference you're pointing at. Both the French and the Italian tokens were issued by private companies, but contrarily to a token, their value was not guaranteed by said company but rather the Government. I suggest that therefore, given their usage as coins, and their general acceptance by the people in lieu of coins, that they should not be placed under tokens. In fact the Italian ones circulated so widely as pocket change that you can actually find some pieces we'll worn down. I believe they should absolutely be considered in their own sub-category like both the French and Spanish ones (Notgeld?). For Italy, use of such tokens actually lasted (with some pauses in the 20's and thirties) into the 1960's. Here is a link to an interesting thread on an Italian coin forum regarding these pieces​.

https://www.lamoneta.it/topic/122169-francobolli-utilizzati-come-moneta-di-emergenza/

Loruca

@loruca

Thanks for the link, for whether the Italian issues should be in Tokens or in their own subcategory under Italy, I think this question should be settled by whether they circulated as regular currency, and were accepted as cash by people, as opposed to tokens issued by a car wash that were only accepted at that company. This is also why, despite the non-government origin of the French stamp coins, they are not in tokens.

To me it seems the Italian tokens listed above are indeed specific to a company, but if they circulated outside that company as regular currency (as the link seems to stipulate they did), then I would be happy to withdraw my opposition, and agree with you.

Цитата: "CassTaylor"​@loruca
​
​Thanks for the link, for whether the Italian issues should be in Tokens or in their own subcategory under Italy, I think this question should be settled by whether they circulated as regular currency, and were accepted as cash by people, as opposed to tokens issued by a car wash that were only accepted at that company. This is also why, despite the non-government origin of the French stamp coins, they are not in tokens.
​
​To me it seems the Italian tokens listed above are indeed specific to a company, but if they circulated outside that company as regular currency (as the link seems to stipulate they did), then I would be happy to withdraw my opposition.

​They were in fact meant to circulate as coin replacements, internal company tokens didn't usually require "external validation" (read: a government sanctioned postage stamp) to give them value, and the shortage of coins was extreme (although no good answer exists as to why, Italians like to blame the Swiss for importing 100 lire coins to make watch backs out of, but....). In fact, these tokens were later phased out (around the 60's) and replaced with the famed "miniassegni" bank-backed mini cheques written to the bearer by banks. (many of said banks existing only in the mind of the counterfeiter) which circulated well into the 80's. As to the issuers of these tokens, many were banks, others were companies out for publicity and others still were actually government sanctioned, as some in the RSI period.
What do you think an appropriate subsection name would be? Notgeld? Stamp Coins? Postage Stamp Tokens? stampycoinythingys?

"stampycoinythingys"

In all honesty, I would rather the French advertisement stamp coins be moved to Tokens under a currency there called maybe, "France - Stamp Tokens", like this Belgian stamp/advertisement issue is:
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces54672.html

The only reason why the French stamp coins aren't already under tokens is ostensibly because "French Notgeld" exists, but none of those French stamp coins were actually issued by a specific municipality like for example, this random French Notgeld coin was.

Same for the Italian ones; a new currency under Tokens called "Italy - Stamp Tokens". However, I would recommend the Spanish Republican (Civil War era) stamp coins, issued directly by the Loyalist government, to remain in Spain because of their origin.