Questions about Krause Catalog and some coins

Hey all once again!

So as was recommended by you I checked my grandma's coin collection (just the Argentinean coins so far) in the Krause Catalog, and I've come across a few things that I just can't figure out:

- In the instructions for grading, before the list of coins, there is VG-8 & G-4 for the lowest quality, but when I'm going through the list of coins, those 2 don't appear in any of them, they start from F12 onwards. So first I thought this meant that anything lower than F12 would be worthless so they just don't bother to write them, but then I read in the instructions that when it doesn't have any value, it is marked with a dash. And indeed there are several cases where the list shows a lot of dashes, but the grading code still appears. So, why are the VG-8 & G-4 missing in all of them? And sometimes the F12 also disappears completely...

- Since most of the coins I have start with F12 in the list, how can I tell if mine falls under this category or if it's a lower VG-8? For example these coins:






- At the end of the list of coins for Argentina there is a section called 'PATTERNS - Including off metal strikes' which I understood as error coins. In this list I see one of the coins I have, written like this:

Pn64 1975 — Peso. Aluminum-Bronze. KM#45. - Market Value $145

What does Pn64 mean? How can I tell whether mine is this one or the one in the normal list? Because in the normal list it also says 1975, Peso, Aluminum-Bronze, but the value is just a few cents.

I don't understand the same coin appearing twice, and having such a different value. And if it is an error coin, what is the error supposed to be?

I also don't understand the 'KM#45', as I see this in another coin from 1950.


Anyway, it's so clear I'm a newbie at this hehe, so please tell me if you need me to post more info from the catalog so that what I'm asking makes more sense.


Thank you!!

Hello!

The "pn" means that it is a pattern coin (one that was never made for circulation but a kind of "test" coin). Yours is not a pattern coin... which sadly means it is only worth a few cents. The reason that the KM number is the same on another coin is because the design and metal content of the coin was the same for a long time.

I am not the most experienced in this, but I'm sure another fellow member with more information will help you soon :)

Hope this helps, and welcome to Numista!

ShadowyEnigma :)

With regards to the KM#Pn64, ShadowyEnigma hit the nail right on the head!

The difference is that the KM# with Pn means it's a pattern strike, not error coins (errors aren't usually listed in Krause), as opposed to the "normal" coin. Usually those have some indication (e.g. the word Essai for French patterns), and in any case it's highly unlikely given their low mintages and collector demand that you find one amongst circulating coins (though it has happened before).

Not sure what you're referring to with the dashes, but I'm guessing you are using NGC's database instead of Krause's SCWC: https://www.ngccoin.com/price-guide/world/argentina-20-centavos-km-36-1896-1942-cuid-1067278-duid-1213112
Your rationale is mostly correct, sometimes for nearly obliterated coins the value is so minimal that nothing is put at all; conversely for some rare high-end issues, where we only have a few auction results to determine value, a dash is also put (sometimes with auction realised prices listed below).

Thanks a lot to both!

A thing though: I understand pattern coins are rare, but how do you identify one? In this case the information given 'Pn64 1975 — Peso. Aluminum-Bronze. KM#45. - Market Value $145' does any of that tell me how to identify what they coin should look like?

And as for the dashes I think I wasn't very clear:

So, in the instructions of the catalog there is a list of grading denominations, from G-4 all the way to MS-66, but then when looking through the list of coins, none of them actually have the G-4 or VG-4, so I naturally thought this meant they are not worth anything in those conditions, but, the thing is there are other cases where the denomination is present, but in the place where there should be a price for that coin instead it has a dash ( - ).

So I'm confused, why sometimes the denomination is there, but without any price (which would mean it isn't worth anything) but then why are some denominations not there at all.

Do you understand? I feel it's contradicting and I don't understand how to interpret it...

Цитата: "Tasukete"​
​So, in the instructions of the catalog there is a list of grading denominations, from G-4 all the way to MS-66, but then when looking through the list of coins, none of them actually have the G-4 or VG-4, so I naturally thought this meant they are not worth anything in those conditions, but, the thing is there are other cases where the denomination is present, but in the place where there should be a price for that coin instead it has a dash ( - ).
​
​So I'm confused, why sometimes the denomination is there, but without any price (which would mean it isn't worth anything) but then why are some denominations not there at all.
​
​Do you understand? I feel it's contradicting and I don't understand how to interpret it...

​To tell pattern coins apart from their "normal" counterparts, sometimes you can look for a small word (Specimen, Trial, etc., or in other languages Essai, Prova, Prueba, etc.) on the coin. Other times, perhaps the design is different in some way, or the dimensions are different, but there are some trial strikes that look alost completely identical to the "normal" coin.

As for the denomination, I am not sure what you mean, could you screenshot what you're looking at and post that here?