Addition of Republic for Ireland [решено]

Coins such as this (https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces3284.html) need this issuer:

Ireland
- Republic (1949-date)

Source: https://www.thoughtco.com/when-did-ireland-become-a-republic-1542570
- Section: Ireland Finally Becomes a Republic

From 1922, the following sections need creation;

Irish Free State - King George V (1922 - 36).

Irish Free State - King Edward VIII (1936).

Irish Free State - King George VI (1936 - 37).

Dominion of Ireland - King George VI (1937 - 49).

Republic of Ireland - Pre-Decimal coins - (1949 - 69).

Republic of Ireland - Decimal coins (1969 - 2000).

Republic of Ireland - Euro coins (since 2002).

Aidan.

There are many rulling authorities to be created there. For now, I just created Irish Republic, so modern coins can be modified.

Цитата: "Jarcek"​There are many rulling authorities to be created there. For now, I just created Irish Republic, so modern coins can be modified.

​
That is NOT the correct description - as the official description is Republic of Ireland, as stated in the Republic of Ireland Act, 1948.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1948/act/22/enacted/en/print.html .

Aidan.

Yes, but I used that just on the forum. In the database is just "Republic"

Actually the official name of the State is Éire or Ireland. See Article 4 of Bunreacht na hÉireann:

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/d5bd8c-constitution-of-ireland/

The official name of the State, Éire, as expressed in our Constitution, is the name used on both coins and stamps.

Name is represented in the country list. Rulling authority is more political, so Republic is suitable I guess. :)

Цитата: "Jupiter"​Actually the official name of the State is Éire or Ireland. See Article 4 of Bunreacht na hÉireann:
​
​https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/d5bd8c-constitution-of-ireland/
​
​The official name of the State, Éire, as expressed in our Constitution, is the name used on both coins and stamps.

​
The 1937 Constitution of Ireland was actually enacted to replace the 1922 Constitution of the Irish Free State.

Between 1937 & 1949, Ireland was actually a Dominion in the British Commonwealth - with King George VI as the head of state under the External Relations Act, & the President of Ireland being merely a local replacement for the Governor-General of the Irish Free State, but without any recognition outside Ireland.

18th. of April 1949 was when the King ceased to be Ireland's head of state - & the then President of Ireland, Sean T. O'Kelly, was upgraded to being the first full head of state of the Republic of Ireland (Poblacht na h-Eireann).

The name 'Republic of Ireland' (Poblacht na h-Eireann) is actually a description - & proposals to include this as an amendment to the 1937 Constitution has not borne fruit, as it were.

Aidan.

My point was Ireland is not officially known as a Republic, despite the 1948 Act. The State is officially known as Éire and Ireland in the Constitution and in practice. The description in 1948 Act is not used. The use of Éire on Irish stamps and coins rather than using "Republic of Ireland" (1948 Act) illustrates my point.

Apologies for my lousy original post. A consequence of posting at 5am.

Watch this documentary about the creation of the 1937 Constitution of Ireland along with the External Relations Act, then with the Republic of Ireland Act - along with the consequences;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-asFWpX0nE .

More proof of why 'Dominion of Ireland' needs to be listed separately from 'Irish Free State' & 'Republic of Ireland'.

Aidan.

Interesting documentary. I had not seen that particular one before.

Jupiter,
I was referring to the 1937-49 intermediate stage in which Ireland had BOTH the King of Ireland AND the President of Ireland at the same time ( from 1938, when Douglas Hyde was installed, to 1949, when Sean T. O'Kelly was upgraded to being the Republic of Ireland's first fully recognised head of state in every respects. ).

King George VI was legally & internationally recognised in diplomatic usage as Ireland's head of state - given the fact that Ireland was still a member of the British Commonwealth.

The 2 Presidents of Ireland ( Douglas Hyde & Sean T. O'Kelly) had no status outside Ireland at all - which meant they were local replacements for the Governors-General.

Here is an article about this;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_of_state_of_Ireland_(1936_to_1949) .

To me, the term 'Eire' to describe Ireland in 1937-49 is so politically loaded beyond belief, so I use the term 'Dominion of Ireland' instead to reflect King George VI's internationally recognised status as King of Ireland, despite the fact that he was never viceregally represented in Ireland, but did have British Representatives in Ireland ( who should have been titled as High Commissioners like Ireland's envoys to Canada & the U.K. were ).

Strictly speaking, Ireland in 1937-49 functioned as a de-facto republic inside Ireland, but it was still de-jure legally a Dominion, given its membership in the British Commonwealth.

Had the London Declaration been adopted earlier than it was, then Ireland would have become the very first British Commonwealth republic in 1949 instead of India in 1950.

Aidan.

Aidan, surely you realise that the term "Dominion of Ireland" is the politically loaded term here, given that Éire was the officially used term? Remember that being a dominion didn't automatically mean that the title "Dominion" was applied, consider the "Commonwealth of Australia" and the "Union of South Africa", not to mention the "Free State of Ireland" itself. That the term "Free State" was dropped does not imply that the term "Dominion" was adopted.

Цитата: "ceh2019"​Aidan, surely you realise that the term "Dominion of Ireland" is the politically loaded term here, given that Éire was the officially used term? Remember that being a dominion didn't automatically mean that the title "Dominion" was applied, consider the "Commonwealth of Australia" and the "Union of South Africa", not to mention the "Free State of Ireland" itself. That the term "Free State" was dropped does not imply that the term "Dominion" was adopted.

​
'Eire' (note the lack of the fada accent mark) is the politically loaded term.

Of course, the word 'Dominion' doesn't have to be part of a country's name to indicate that it is a Dominion.

The term 'Dominion of Ireland' is purely a description - as much as the term 'Republic of Ireland' is.

This article mentions that Ireland between 1937 & 1949 was as much a Dominion as was the Irish Free State was;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion .

Aidan.

Цитата: "BCNumismatics"​'Eire' (note the lack of the fada accent mark) is the politically loaded term.

​Why?

Цитата: "ceh2019"​

Цитата: "BCNumismatics"​​'Eire' (note the lack of the fada accent mark) is the politically loaded term.
​
​
​

​​Why?

​

Read here;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_the_Irish_state .

Anyway, 'Dominion of Ireland' IS a description - including its status as a Dominion between 1937 & 1949 after the Irish Free State ceased to exist.

Aidan.

That's a long article that doesn't use the term "politically loaded" anywhere.
As to your point about "Dominion of Ireland" being a description, it's one description for that period, the other being "Republic of Ireland". Neither were adopted officially but Republic represents what was actually happening in southern Ireland, whereas Dominion does not.

Цитата: "ceh2019"​That's a long article that doesn't use the term "politically loaded" anywhere.
​As to your point about "Dominion of Ireland" being a description, it's one description for that period, the other being "Republic of Ireland". Neither were adopted officially but Republic represents what was actually happening in southern Ireland, whereas Dominion does not.

​
The description 'Republic of Ireland' applies after 18 April 1949, when the Republic of Ireland Act, 1948 came into effect.

Between 29 December 1937 & 17 April 1949, Ireland was still a Dominion - as King George VI was Ireland's head of state as stated in the External Relations Act, 1936.

Aidan.

But not as far as the Irish state was concerned. The whole point here is that Dublin considered Éire (I'm sticking with the spelling used on all coins and notes) to be a republic. It may not have been a view shared by the UK government but surely what matters is the position within the state we're describing. Should we refer to the USA as the thirteen colonies from 1776 until 1783? Is using "USA" for that period "politically loaded"?

Цитата: "ceh2019"​But not as far as the Irish state was concerned. The whole point here is that Dublin considered Éire (I'm sticking with the spelling used on all coins and notes) to be a republic. It may not have been a view shared by the UK government but surely what matters is the position within the state we're describing. Should we refer to the USA as the thirteen colonies from 1776 until 1783? Is using "USA" for that period "politically loaded"?

​
Ireland was NOT a republic in 1937 nor at any point until 1949!

Watch this documentary, which supports what I am saying;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-asFWpX0nE .

Aidan.

If that's the case, why, as mentioned in one of the Wikipedia articles you quoted, did de Valera insist that it was? The title Republic wasn't in the consitution until 1949 but the state functioned as a republic. That's why using the term "Dominion", that does not describe the state in that period, would be inaccurate.
The real problem is that the 1937 constitution seems to have been deliberately obscure on this point. What we should be striving for is an accurate description, not trying to impose terminology that simply wasn't used. A quick Google search on "Dominion of Ireland" (with quotation marks) does not throw up a single page related to the period 1937-1949.

Цитата: "ceh2019"​If that's the case, why, as mentioned in one of the Wikipedia articles you quoted, did de Valera insist that it was? The title Republic wasn't in the consitution until 1949 but the state functioned as a republic. That's why using the term "Dominion", that does not describe the state in that period, would be inaccurate.
​The real problem is that the 1937 constitution seems to have been deliberately obscure on this point. What we should be striving for is an accurate description, not trying to impose terminology that simply wasn't used. A quick Google search on "Dominion of Ireland" (with quotation marks) does not throw up a single page related to the period 1937-1949.

I would take a more 'radical' position.

The Balfour Declaration (1926) defined the relationships between the members of the Commonwealth. The Declaration also set out the minimum standards to remain a member of the Commonwealth: common allegiance and free association.

In my opinion, the Irish Free State seceded the Commonwealth by removing the Crown from the internal machinery of the 1922 Free State Constitution.

• Constitution (Removal of Oath) Act, 1933;
• Constitution (Amendment No. 20) Act, 1933;
• Constitution (Amendment No. 21) Act, 1933;
• Constitution (Amendment No. 22) Act, 1933;
• The Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act, 1935;
• Constitution (Amendment No. 27) Act, 1936
• Executive Authority (External Relations) Act, 1936;
• Executive Powers (Consequential Provisions) Act, 1937.

The only power remaining was section 3(1) of the (External Relations) Act, 1936. Even then the King could only act on advice of the Irish Free State Executive Council. In other words, by the time the 1937 Constitution came into force, the Monarchy was gone.

This is why I think "Dominion of Ireland" is unnecessary. Éire or Ireland would suffice. This is the name of the State in Art. 4 of the 1937 Constitution.

Just out of interest, did the King ever exercise the remaining power?

Цитата: "ceh2019"​Just out of interest, did the King ever exercise the remaining power?

​Yes, he did. Until the introduction of the Republic of Ireland Act in 1948.

That rather muddies the waters, doesn't it?

Цитата: "ceh2019"​That rather muddy the waters, doesn't it?

​I don't think so, no.

The King was acting on behalf of the State, subject to the advice of the Executive Council.

The Act would have lapsed under the 1937 Constitution only for Article 29.4.2.
This allowed the government to "adopt any organ, instrument or method of procedure" in exercising any executive functions of the State in or in connection with its external relations. Hence why the King continued to act on behalf of the State after the 1937 Constitution entered into force.

I suppose it comes down to whether having a foreign monarch do certain jobs for the government implies a constitutional relationship, even if it's an unwritten one. I'm trying to think of another case where something like this occurred. The best I can do off the top of my head is the situation in Fiji, where Elizabeth II continued to appear on coins and notes long after the republic was declared. Not the same kind of "job" but it implies a relationship that didn't exist constitutionally.
All that said, I don't see that this justifies applying the term "Dominion of Ireland", but it is interesting.

Цитата: "BCNumismatics"​Jupiter,
​ I was referring to the 1937-49 intermediate stage in which Ireland had BOTH the King of Ireland AND the President of Ireland at the same time ( from 1938, when Douglas Hyde was installed, to 1949, when Sean T. O'Kelly was upgraded to being the Republic of Ireland's first fully recognised head of state in every respects. ).
​
​King George VI was legally & internationally recognised in diplomatic usage as Ireland's head of state - given the fact that Ireland was still a member of the British Commonwealth.

​To me, the term 'Eire' to describe Ireland in 1937-49 is so politically loaded beyond belief, so I use the term 'Dominion of Ireland' instead to reflect King George VI's internationally recognised status as King of Ireland, despite the fact that he was never viceregally represented in Ireland, but did have British Representatives in Ireland ( who should have been titled as High Commissioners like Ireland's envoys to Canada & the U.K. were ).

It was a general post, BCNumismatics. I wasn't​ replying anyone. Apologies for the confusion. But seeing as you put in the effort to reply.

My reply

1. King George VI was not King of Ireland between 1937 and 1949. The Dominion model had been dismantled by the Irish Free State government between 1933 and 1936. King George VI was only allowed to act on behalf of Ireland for external affairs between 1937-1948 because of Article 29.4.2 of the 1937 Constitution.

The External Relations Act, 1936 would have lapsed without Article 29.4.2. The reason for saving the 1936 Act was due to Ireland's aspiration for national unity (i.e. Northern Ireland).

Цитата: "BCNumismatics"​Strictly speaking, Ireland in 1937-49 functioned as a de-facto republic inside Ireland, but it was still de-jure legally a Dominion, given its membership in the British Commonwealth.

​
2. Ireland would have been legally bound to the Commonwealth under the terms of the Anglo-Irish Treaty (Article 1). However, the Treaty was dismantled between 1933 and 1936 by De Valera. In any event, Articles 48 to 50 of the 1937 Constitution repealed what remained of the 1922 Free State Constitution.

Jupiter,
If you watched that documentary, you will see where the late Judge Declan Costello was making a reference to the King exercising the foreign relations power of signing papers appointing Ambassadors to foreign countries & the 2 Irish High Commissioners to Canada & the U.K..

The King was actually exercising powers that typically belong to heads of states in their official capacities - so, Judge Declan was right in saying that the King was the head of state of Ireland, which means King George VI WAS the King of Ireland.

It was the External Relations Act itself that gave the King those foreign relations powers.

As for my use of the term 'Dominion of Ireland', it is a reflection of the fact that only Dominions were British Commonwealth members - & Ireland was then a member of the British Commonwealth, ie; a Dominion.

John A. Costello's secretary, Patrick Lynch mentioned about William Mackenzie King taking the correct view that the King was Ireland's head of state.

The Presidents of Ireland had as much recognition internationally as the Presidents of Rhodesia did between 1970 & 1979 - absolutely none.

Both countries were de-facto republics, but they both had the monarch as their de-jure head of state - King George VI as King of Ireland & Queen Elizabeth II who was automatically Rhodesia's head of state, as Rhodesia was a British colony right up to 18 April 1980.

Aidan.

Please tell me you aren't going to demand we change the listing for Republic of Rhodesia to "Colony of Southern Rhodesia".
From what I can see, the President, King and Taoiseach shared between them the duties and powers that other countries typically assign to the head of state. An unusual arrangement, certainly, but not a reason to invent a new term.

Цитата: "ceh2019"​Please tell me you aren't going to demand we change the listing for Republic of Rhodesia to "Colony of Southern Rhodesia".
​From what I can see, the President, King and Taoiseach shared between them the duties and powers that other countries typically assign to the head of state. An unusual arrangement, certainly, but not a reason to invent a new term.

​
I would not be advocating putting 'Rhodesia' under 'Southern Rhodesia' - considering that Rhodesia itself from 1965 to 1979 was internationally recognised de-jure as a British colony.

As for Ireland, the first 2 Presidents had NO international recognition, therefore, only His Majesty the King himself had recognition as Ireland's head of state.

The Taoiseach is the Prime Minister of the Republic of Ireland - a head of government, not a head of state.

Aidan.

Цитата: "BCNumismatics"​​
​I would not be advocating putting 'Rhodesia' under 'Southern Rhodesia' - considering that Rhodesia itself from 1965 to 1979 was internationally recognised de-jure as a British colony.
​
​As for Ireland, the first 2 Presidents had NO international recognition, therefore, only His Majesty the King himself had recognition as Ireland's head of state.
​
​The Taoiseach is the Prime Minister of the Republic of Ireland - a head of government, not a head of state.
​
​Aidan.

​I'm relieved to hear we won't have to worry about Rhodesia. My point about the duties being shared between all three is based on the following from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_Ireland

Unlike most parliamentary republics, the president is not even the nominal chief executive. Rather, executive authority in Ireland is expressly vested in the government (cabinet).

For the the record, here are Declan Costello's words in full:

Цитата: "Declan Costello"Although there was, eh, no King of any form any longer in the Constitution, there was a statute that provided for the purposes of appointing foreign diplomats, and the King was the person who did so. And for the purpose of executing treaties it was the King who did it. And under diplomatic law and usage the head of state did these things. And so under diplomatic usage the King was being treated as the head of the Irish State.

Now your words:

Цитата: "BCNumismatics"The King was actually exercising powers that typically belong to heads of states in their official capacities - so, [Costello] was right in saying that the King was the head of state of Ireland, which means King George VI WAS King of Ireland.

1. But Costello did not say "the King was Head of State" (your words). Costello said in his final sentence that George VI was "being treated" as head of state.

Your inaccurate paraphrasing of Costello's words undermines your conclusion that George VI was King of Ireland. The difference here is Irish law did confer any title upon George VI. Indeed Costello said in his opening line that there was no King in the Constitution any longer.

Цитата: "BCNumismatics"John A. Costello's secretary, Patrick Lynch mentioned about William Mackenzie King taking the correct view that the King was Ireland's head of state.

2. You have misrepresented the words of Costello's Private Secretary, Patrick Lynch. Here is what Lynch said:

Цитата: "Patrick Lynch"[...] Mr Costello resented the fact that the toast of the President of Ireland was not honoured and he, eh, told the Prime Minister, McKenzie King, of his offence at that. Because the King rather took the view, which was literally the correct view, was that Ireland was still a member of the Commonwealth, formally. That, eh, the toast to the King covered both interests.

One, Lynch did not say William MacKenzie King took the view that the King was Ireland's head of state.

Two, Lynch said the King rather took the view that Ireland was still formally a member of the Commonwealth. In the mind of Lynch, this was "literally the correct view".

Цитата: "BCNumismatics"Both countries were de facto republics, but they both had the monarchy as their de jure head of state - King George VI as King of Ireland & Queen Elizabeth II who was automatically Rhodesia's head of state [...]

3. I don't have the knowledge to comment on Rhodesia. So I won't. And I have refuted above the claim that George VI was de jure head of state - King of Ireland.

R.B. McDowell had a very interesting comment about the King being King of Ireland, which you can see here;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elvP6qWecc8 .

Aidan.

The Republic - Leaving the Commonwealth by David McCullagh

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c-asFWpX0nE

Source for the quotes in my last post.

Цитата: "Jupiter"​ The Republic - Leaving the Commonwealth by David McCullagh
​
​https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=c-asFWpX0nE
​
​Source for the quotes in my last post.
​

​
I know, as I have watched it a number of times.

Aidan.

In my opinion, R.B McDowell only confirms what this thread proves:

Цитата: "R.B McDowell"It ruled out the last tenants of the connection to Great Britain. Up 'til then, remember, one could, on admittedly very, very tenuous grounds consider that the King or the Monarch was still the King of Ireland.

I would take it one step further. The grounds for George VI being King of Ireland between 1937 and 1948 are non-existent.

I agree with ceh2019:

Цитата: "ceh2019"[...]What we should be striving for is an accurate description, not trying to impose terminology that simply wasn't used.[...]

I see no reason why the following would not suffice:

Ireland or Éire - (1937-1969)

I think a reference to the Commonwealth is unnecessary. George VI as King of Ireland is without legal foundation. And the description in the 1948 Act (i.e. Republic of Ireland) did not, and still doesn't, feature on coins.

Jupiter,
Including the coins dated 1939 to 1948 under the Republic is totally wrong, as Ireland was NOT legally a republic until 18 April 1949.

Only the coins dated 1949 & later belong under the Republic's listing.

The role of the King is outlined in the External Relations Act itself - & as Ireland was still in the British Commonwealth, therefore, Ireland was still a Dominion with King George VI as Ireland's head of state.

Have a read here as well;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_of_state_of_Ireland_(1936_to_1949) & here;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Authority_(External_Relations)_Act_1936 .

Aidan.

Цитата: "BCNumismatics"​Jupiter,
​ Including the coins dated 1939 to 1948 under the Republic is totally wrong, as Ireland was NOT legally a republic until 18 April 1949.
​
​Only the coins dated 1949 & later belong under the Republic's listing.
​

The description of the State is immaterial. The name used on Irish coins since the 1937 Constitution entered into force is Éire. Or at least the misspelling - Eire. The same true to this day.

Jupiter,
Watch this one as well;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4cwngHVJpo .

More proof of why 'Dominion of Ireland' needs addition, along with 'Irish Free State' & 'Republic of Ireland'.

Aidan.

Цитата: "BCNumismatics"​Jupiter,
​ Including the coins dated 1939 to 1948 under the Republic is totally wrong, as Ireland was NOT legally a republic until 18 April 1949.
​
​Only the coins dated 1949 & later belong under the Republic's listing.

S.I. No. 78/1938 - Coinage (Dimensions and Designs) Order, 1938.

Link: S.I. No. 78/1938 - Coinage (Dimensions and Designs) Order, 1938.

Цитата: "S.I. No. 78/1938 - Article 4"Notwithstanding anything contained in the Principal Order, every coin issued under the Coinage Act, 1926 (No. 14 of 1926), after the date of this Order may, in lieu of the obverse impression prescribed in paragraph 4 of the Principal Order, have an obverse impression consisting of a harp, together with the inscription " Éire " and the date of the year, but shall in all other respects be in accordance with the Principal Order.

(emphasis added)

Even after the commencement of the Republic of Ireland Act, the use of Éire continued:

Цитата: "S.I. No. 137/1951 - Coinage (Dimensions and Designs) Regulations, 1951"4. Every coin to be provided shall have for the obverse impression a harp, together with the inscription " Éire " and the date of the year, and the reverse impression of the several denominations of the coins to be provided shall be as set forth in the Second Schedule to these Regulations.

Link: http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1951/si/137/made/en/print

The British Parliament's Ireland Act, 1949 makes a reference to Ireland as having been a Dominion under the King.

Have a read here;

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo6/12-13-14/41/enacted .

Ireland was most definitely well within the British Commonwealth in 1939, as you can see here;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0RLaqkJFlU .

Aidan.

Цитата: "BCNumismatics"​The British Parliament's Ireland Act, 1949 makes a reference to Ireland as having been a Dominion under the King.
​
​Have a read here;
​
​http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo6/12-13-14/41/enacted .
​
​Ireland was most definitely well within the British Commonwealth in 1939, as you can see here;
​
​https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0RLaqkJFlU .
​
​Aidan.

But British law had no jurisdiction in Ireland between 1937 and 1949.

At most, Ireland was a de facto member of the Commonwealth. Also, the inclusion George VI as King of Ireland suggests a constitutional role at variance with that created by the External Relations Act, 1936 and the 1937 Constitution. He was not King of Ireland.

Besides, none of the above alters the fact that Éire has been used on Irish coins since shortly after the enactment of the 1937 Constitution.

​

King George VI was King of Ireland, but not King in Ireland, as his role under the External Relations Act was limited to foreign affairs - especially in terms of signing documents accrediting the Irish High Commissioners to Canada & the U.K., & signing the documents accrediting Irish Ambassadors to non-British Commonwealth countries.

Presidents Hyde & O'Kelly had NO recognition outside Ireland at all - serving merely as local replacements for the Governor-General.

Under diplomatic usage, King George VI was Ireland's head of state - which means Ireland did have a King, which was King George VI, who was as much King of Ireland as he was King of Canada, King of South Africa, King of the U.K. & Northern Ireland, etc.

King George VI's title in Ireland was the same as everywhere else in the British Commonwealth.

The British Parliament's Ireland Act, 1949 was their response to the Irish Parliament's Republic of Ireland Act, 1948.

Aidan.

Цитата: "BCNumismatics"King George VI was King of Ireland, but not King in Ireland, as his role under the External Relations Act was limited to foreign affairs - especially in terms of signing documents accrediting the Irish High Commissioners to Canada & the U.K., & signing the documents accrediting Irish Ambassadors to non-British Commonwealth countries.

You are mistakenly conflating the role and the title of George VI. The External Relations Act set out his role, and George VI was treated as head of state for that purpose. But nothing in the Act (or the 1937 Constitution) conferred Kingship.

Well, King George VI was crowned in 1937 as King of the United Kingdom & the Dominions, & Emperor of India.

One of those Dominions was Ireland - a few months away from replacing the Irish Free State with the Dominion of Ireland under the 1937 Constitution of Ireland / Bunreacht na h-Eireann in its original form.

Aidan.

The Irish Free State was not replaced with the Dominion of Ireland under the 1937 Constitution, BCNumismatics. Another falsehood!

Цитата: "Jupiter"​The Irish Free State was not replaced with the Dominion of Ireland under the 1937 Constitution, BCNumismatics. Another falsehood!

​Yes it was, as the Irish Free State ceased to exist on 29 December 1937.

My use of 'Dominion of Ireland' is purely a description to reflect Ireland's status as a Dominion within the British Commonwealth with King George VI as Ireland's de-jure & internationally recognised head of state - the King of Ireland.

The term 'Eire' is so politically loaded, so I refuse to use it.

Aidan.

My apologies! Thanks for clarifying.

Precisely what law made George VI de jure head of state?

And how is the use of the name Éire, in this context, politically loaded?

The External Relations Act itself provided the foreign relations role for the King.

Foreign countries' Ambassadors who were accredited to Ireland had to have their credentials signed off by their own government & accepted by the King in London before being allowed to take up their postings in Dublin.

The King did not have any executive power inside Ireland at all - a bit like the King of Lesotho, who has no executive powers at all, but is still recognised as the head of state of Lesotho, which is also a Commonwealth country.

Presidents Hyde & O'Kelly did not have any foreign relations powers at all.

The name 'Eire' with the fada accent above the 'E' is not politically loaded, given the fact that spelling is part of the orthography of the Irish Gaelic language.

The name 'Eire' without the fada accent is politically loaded, because of its association with the dispute between the governments in Dublin & London about how Ireland's name should be expressed - which was resolved in the 1990's after years of extremely tense relations since de Valera's time as Prime Minister of Ireland.

Aidan.

Between 1919 & 1921, there was a political party in Ireland that was called the Irish Dominion League.

A Dominion of Ireland Bill was introduced into the House of Lords in London.

Have a read here;

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/lords/1920/jun/22/dominion-of-ireland-bill-hl .

& here;

http://hansard.millbanksystems.com/lords/1920/jul/01/dominion-of-ireland-bill-hl .

Had the Bill been passed through both Houses of the British Parliament, it would have resulted in the creation of a Dominion of Ireland consisting of the whole isle of Ireland - & ended the Anglo-Irish War earlier than it did.

My use of the description 'Dominion of Ireland' to describe Ireland between 1937 & 1949 also stems from this as well.

Aidan.

This article gives the Republic of Ireland as one of the states & territories established in 1949;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland .

More reason why 'Republic of Ireland (since 1949)' should be included as a constitutional status.

Aidan.

Цитата: "BCNumismatics"​This article gives the Republic of Ireland as one of the states & territories established in 1949;
​
​https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Ireland .
​
​More reason why 'Republic of Ireland (since 1949)' should be included as a constitutional status.
​
​Aidan.

​We have been through this issue before BC Numismatics.

In the context of Irish coinage such a distinction is unnecessary. Even after the commencement of the Republic of Ireland Act, "Éire" was and is still used on Irish coins.

It still doesn't change the fact that Ireland was still a Dominion right from 1922 to 1949 though - given that Ireland was a member state of the British Commonwealth until the declaration of the Republic of Ireland on the 18th. of April 1949.

Aidan.