James I / Charles I Farthings, second opinion needed

Would appreciate anyone with the time to look them over...

I think I've got them, but happy to be corrected... I do need new eyes after all.

First one I think is a Harrington Type 1a Sp:2674


Second one less convinced, but appears to be Type 3 Sp:2679


Sorry for the images, it would be easier for me if I could get sharper images from my scanner, or new eyes.

Thanks, Dan.

Цитата: "inc7007"​Would appreciate anyone with the time to look them over...
​
​I think I've got them, but happy to be corrected... I do need new eyes after all.
​
​First one I think is a Harrington Type 1a Sp:2674
​
​
​Second one less convinced, but appears to be Type 3 Sp:2679
​
​
​Sorry for the images, it would be easier for me if I could get sharper images from my scanner, or new eyes.
​
​Thanks, Dan.
​

​Good afternoon, Dan. The first coin you have shown is:-

Harington - "Type 1b : Similar in size and weight to 1a, but not tinned. ‘Fret’ on reverse. Privy mark is now the central jewel on the obverse crown (quite difficult to make out) which can be unmodified, a trefoil, a crescent, or a mullet. All rotated die axis."

It has a 'fret' (cross-hatching) like yours. Quote from

https://oldcurrencyexchange.com/2015/07/09/obrien-coin-guide-harington-patent-farthings-1613-14/

The second coin is

Lennox "Type 3 : Farthings of this numerous group have the privy mark on the obverse only – at 12.00 o’clock. 5 circlet jewels either side. Usually 6, occasionally 5, and extremely rarely,7 harp strings.
Privy marks recorded are – lombardic A, annulet, coronet, cross flory fitchée, cross patée fourchée, dagger, eagle’s head, fusil, key (horizontal), lion passant, lis, mascle, quatrefoil, rose, roundel, thistle head, trefoil, triangle,tun, turtle, and woolpack. From this issue onwards, many counterfeits occur."

The marks (at 12 o' clock) in the O'Brien guide photo are a key and annulet, like yours. It is dated to c.1616-22/23. Quote from:-

https://oldcurrencyexchange.com/2015/07/08/obrien-coin-guide-lennox-patent-farthings-1614-25/

Hope this helps.
Regards, Alex.

Thanks Alex, for the info and that site (not seen it before), lots of good info.

So I think the first two are correct, just the remaining three to be identified now...



Harington: Type 1b (1613) for James I [Trefoil Mintmark]


Lennox: Type 3 (1616-1622/23) for James I [Key Mintmark]



Richmond: Type 2? (1625-34) for Charles I [Leaf? Mintmark]


Maltravers: Type 2? (1634-36) for Charles I [Bell? Mintmark]


Maltravers: Rose Type 4b? (1636-42) for Charles I [Crescent/Crescent? Mintmark]

Цитата: "inc7007"​Thanks Alex, for the info and that site (not seen it before), lots of good info.
​
​So I think the first two are correct, just the remaining three to be identified now...
​
​
​
​Harington: Type 1b (1613) for James I [Trefoil Mintmark]
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​Lennox: Type 3 (1616-1622/23) for James I [Key Mintmark]
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​Richmond: Type 2? (1625-34) for Charles I [Leaf? Mintmark]
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​Maltravers: Type 2? (1634-36) for Charles I [Bell? Mintmark]
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​Maltravers: Rose Type 4b? (1636-42) for Charles I [Crescent/Crescent? Mintmark]
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​
​

​You are very welcome, Dan. Nice coins you have.

I have identified the one with the Bell privy mark:-

https://oldcurrencyexchange.com/2015/07/11/obrien-coin-guide-maltravers-patent-farthings-1634-36/

Maltravers Type 2 :
Similar to Type 1 but (same) privy mark now on both sides.
· At 12.00 o’clock on obv. and 10.00 o’clock on rev.
· Privy marks include: rose, woolpack, bell, lis (large), lis (small), or martlet.
· Die axis is variable.
· Harp strings range from five to eight.
· Numerous counterfeits exist, some of good quality.

And the one with the Crescent privy mark

https://oldcurrencyexchange.com/2015/07/11/obrien-coin-guide-maltravers-rose-farthings-1636-49/

(Maltravers) Rose Type 4a/4b Mule
· Obverse of 4a reading CAROLVS, but 4b reverse reading FRA and HI instead of FRAN and HIB
· Two versions recorded – one with pm=lis/crescent, the other crescent/crescent

And the one with the Leaf privy mark:-

https://oldcurrencyexchange.com/2015/07/10/obrien-coin-guide-the-richmond-patent-farthings-1625-34-2/

Richmond Type 2 : The most numerous of the RFT types with production spanning 6-7 years. 9/9 jewels,. 5 to 7 strings. Die axis variable – sometimes for the same privy mark. Eagle headed harp – sometimes hook-fronted. Privy marks :- lombardic A (with & without pellet), annulet with pellet within, bell, castle, cinquefoil, crescent, cross with pellets in angles, cross calvary, cross patée, cross patée fitchée, cross patonce, cross patonce in saltire, cross saltire, dagger, ermine, estoile, eye, fish hook, fleece (slot), fusil, halberd, harp, heart, horseshoe, key (vertical), leaf, lion passant, lis, martlet, mascle, nautilus, pike-head, rose, shield, star, stirrup, thistlehead, tower, trefoil, tun and woolpack

Phew! Cheers, Alex.

Thanks for your time and effort Alex, appreciated, I'm in agreement on all but the Maltravers Rose.

While I think it looks more like the Type 4a pictures on the site, it doesn't read CAROLVS.

Looking just at the letters...

Type 4b :
All now read CAROLV DG MA BRI – FRA ET HI REX.
Privy marks are – mullet/mullet, crescent/mullet, mullet/crescent, and the EXR crescent/none.
The final pairing – crescent/crescent – is by far the most numerous, and probably accounts for 80% of all Roses found today.

The last owner had P340 pencilled on the divider, which I assume is a Peck number, but can't check as the Library is closed for weeks yet. I really should obtain a copy of his book at some point...