Common planchets

What a wonderful thread
As a french collector i enjoyed very much all your sets from Paris mint.
​You made me think about the Indochina piastre from San Francisco (1921-22) which was struck along with Morgan(1921) then Peace(1922) dollars. It should be nice to assemble the four of them
https://fr.numista.com/catalogue/pieces11287.html

Bon jour didi, I am glad you like this topic.

French Indochina is very interesting, but I have nothing myself.
I hope some one can show the collection you suggest.

Today I have more coins of Monaco and France to show.
The bi-metalic 10Fr, and tri-metalic 20Fr coins began in France in 1988, in Monaco in 1991, and were issued in various years until the end of the franc in 2000.
Some of the french coins are harder to find than the Monégasque!

Цитата: "Mr. Midnight"​I hope some one can show the collection you suggest.

​Your wish is my command!


However.....
I do not believe the S mintmark piastres were struck on the same planchets as 1921 Morgan dollars, since on my coins, the piastre is just ever so slightly larger in diameter than both dollars, which are the same.

Unless there is evidence for the 1921 piastre or the 1921 Morgan being a different diameter than earlier dates of the same type (shown above), then I conclude that this is not an example of common planchets!

Very nice Casstaylor

I've once read this:
https://www.cointalk.com/threads/planchet-substitution-error.333810/

I agree they are not the same planchets. The numista page for the Piastre says 27g, 39mm, vs 26.73g, 38mm for the US dollar. Very close, oddly. very interesting to see them together.
There is also San Francisco mint FIC 10c coin of 1920, - also very close but not quite the same size as a US dime, and a different alloy. Stuff for another thread!

In 1965 France issued a new crown-size 10 franc coin KM# 932, these were issued every year until 1972.
In 1966, Monaco issued a commemorative on the same planchet KM# 142
Also in, 1966 France issued a new series of coinage for The New Hebrides. KM#1 was on the same planchet as the new French 10f, but denominated at 100 Francs.


France km932
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces674.html
New Hebrides km1
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces10363.html
Monaco km146
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces11357.html

Were there any others?

Now we are missing the elephant in the room, British Empire/Commonwealth coinage was common sizes throughout the empire.

Take the One penny - Same planchet and shape for all these places between 1940 and 1960 - Great Britain, Eire, Australia, New Zealand and South Africa. A Bronze coin that is 30.2mm in size and weighed 9.45 grams and contained 95% Copper and 5% Zinc and Nickel.


Also shown here is a coin of Jersey - Top Row - Eire (Ireland), GB, NZ
Bottom Row Australia, South Africa and Jersey
All coins are One Penny, although the Jersey coin is also 8 doubles and 1/12 of a shilling.

The dates come from Australia, Eire and Britain having the same coin all the way through and New Zealand starting only in 1940 and South Africa finishing in 1960.

Same for Halfpence, but not farthings as New Zealand and Australia did not have farthings, Britain stopped them in 1956 and only South Africa and Ireland carried them on to the 1960s.

The other common shapes of the British world that survived until the present in some cases are the

6d - Size 19.4mm, weight 2.8 grams - became 5 cents after decimalisation
1/- - Size 23.3mm, weight 5.6 grams - 10 cents
and the one I deal with here is the Florin size - 28.4mm - Weight 11.28grams.


1849 UK - Godless Florin (One tenth of a Pound)

The florin size dates from 1848 - but the present dimensions of it only from 1887. This Godless florin from 1849 is 27.9mm in size, but still weighs the same, In 1851 as the Godded Florin came out it was larger (29.0mm) and flatter. Finally with the Jubilee Florin of 1887, it became the size we know now.

Between 1887 and 1910 the only countries doing them was GB, in the 1890s Boer Republic and in 1910 Australia started their Florins.

In 1920 The British coins were debased to 50% silver, but Australian coins remained 92.5% silver until 1946. These coins are the florins in use between 1940 and 1965


Top Row, Australian Florin (50% silver 1946), British Florin 1930 50% silver, South African Florin 1953 Proof, 50% silver.
Bottom, all Curpronickel Florins - Ireland, GB and New Zealand (All were Cupronickel since 1946) Missing Rhodesia (Similar as GB)

South Africa made Florins at 80% silver between 1923 and 1950, 50% between 1951 and 1964 (1961- 64 were decimal 20 cent pieces of same size and shape). In 1965 they switched to smaller base metal coins.

Australia made 92.5% silver between 1910 and 1945, 50% between 1946 and 1963 and base metal 20 cent pieces 1966 to date.

New Zealand, GB, Ireland, all were base metal after 1946, From 1920 - 1946 Britain was 50% silver, 1933 to 1946 New Zealand was 50% silver and Ireland was 75% silver 1928 to 1943 (No coins issued after 1943 until 1951 and these were base metal then).

Yet all these coins were the same size planchet designed at the Royal Mint in 1887. Okay Australian and South African coins minted there, but based on Royal Mint exemplars. These coins all weighed the same new regardless of the amount of silver in it.

The Florin shape lasted into the decimal era too, Australia was the first of this batch to decimalise in early 1966 and Malta was the last in 1972. As Britain shrunk their 10p coin in 1992 - this shape lasted fully through the 1972 - 1986 period. Fiji went to stainless steel coins in 1992 to breaking the Cupro nickel alloy standard. But Malta shrunk all their coins and redesigned them in 1986, being first to break this cycle.

Taking in the late Independence times of Solomon Islands and the early out of Rhodesia, the only real 100% consistent period was 1977 - 1981 (The first reduced size Zimbabwe coins came out that year)

Two images due to bad light.
Decimal "Florins" - Ireland 10 Pence, Australia 20c, Fiji 20c, Malta 10c
British 10 Pence, Samoan 20 Sene, New Zealand 20c (1967 - 1988) NZ 20c (1990 - 2004)
Tongan 20 seniti (1975 - 2008) and Tongan 20 seniti (1967 - 1972)

Other countries using this shape - Papua New Guinea - 20 Toea, Solomon Islands - 20 cents to 2014, Cook Islands 20 Tene to 2010, Kiribati 20 cents, Gibraltar - 10p, Guernsey, Jersey, Isle of Man, Ascension, Falklands, St Helena - all 10 pence. Rhodesia - 20 cents.

Basically any country that switched to dollars, made this coin size and shape a 20 cent piece and Malta, UK and Ireland whom all adopted a new Pound system used it as a 10p or 10c in the case of Malta.

With the possible exception of Australia and maybe PNG and the Solomon Islands, where their coins were minted in Australia, all were minted at the Royal Mint in London to 1968 and Llantrisant in Wales after 1968. Siome coins may have been minted at the Royal Canadian and South African mints, but again to Royal Mint specifications.

All the British territories shrunk their 10p in 1992/93. NZ and Cooks, Samoa, Fiji and Tonga all changed to smaller stainless steel coins between 2006 and 2014. Solomons switched in 2012 due to low dollar value. Australia and Papua New Guinea still have the shape. Australian coins still use the Cupronickel and PNG has switched to steel.

Very good, I had hoped from the beginning that a British Empire/Commonwealth enthusiast would take this up. .

Цитата: "Mr. Midnight"​Very good, I had hoped from the beginning that a British Empire/Commonwealth enthusiast would take this up. .
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​My pleasure , my obsession with all things British spilleth over.

Even more incredible is Australia keeps on with the same sized planchets for its 5c and 10c coins which were the same size and weight as the planchets devised by the Royal Mint in 1816 for its 6d and 1/- coins. The only difference being the Australian coins are cupronickel. Still 203 years must be a record for a modern era coin (Post 1700s).

I say this as the brass plamchet for Chinese cash coins was practically unchanged from 220BC to 1911! or some 2131 years.

Цитата: "Moneytane"​

Цитата​​

​I say this as the brass plamchet for Chinese cash coins was practically unchanged from 220BC to 1911! or some 2131 years.

​Well, not exactly- it's not really appropriate to use the term planchet here since Chinese cash coins were cast; and although yes, that method of manufacture lasted over 2000 years, the dimensions and metal composition of cash coins have varied wildly.

Will come up with something else to post here very shortly.

Wow! I simply love this grouping technique.. I wonder why I never thought of this before. Even I feel like grouping my coins this way now.. it’s amazing to know that the same planchets can be used to strike coins for a different country as well... Cheers! Thanks for sharing those pictures...

Цитата: "sarikanair"​Wow! I simply love this grouping technique.. I wonder why I never thought of this before. Even I feel like grouping my coins this way now.. it’s amazing to know that the same planchets can be used to strike coins for a different country as well... Cheers! Thanks for sharing those pictures...

​I hope you find some new examples in your collection to share with us...

This might be the last example of France and Monaco. I think I have exhausted this category, or nearly so.
The French 25 gram, 10 franc crown seen a few posts earlier, was issued from 1965 to 1973. In 1974 a new, 30 gram, 50 franc coin was introduced, KM#941, with again the Hercule group design of Augustin Dupré.
Monaco issued an analogous coin, KM#152, on the same planchet in 1974, and in mint sets only in 1975 and 76.

Цитата: "Mr. Midnight"​Probably, some Newfoundland and Canada coins were struck on common planchets, but exactly where and when, I have only a wikipedia level knowledge, so this is provisional until I study more, and acquire more -
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​Newfoundland is sterling and Canada is sterling till 1920, after that different planchets. only again 1947 did the newfoundland dime and Canadian dime booth where 80%.

Цитата: "Legowwww"​

Цитата: "Mr. Midnight"​Probably, some Newfoundland and Canada coins were struck on common planchets, but exactly where and when, I have only a wikipedia level knowledge, so this is provisional until I study more, and acquire more -
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​​Newfoundland is sterling and Canada is sterling till 1920, after that different planchets. only again 1947 did the newfoundland dime and Canadian dime booth where 80%.

​good information. but where made? London, UK mint until when? when did Canada start its own mint?

Цитата: "Mr. Midnight"​

Цитата: "Legowwww"​
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Цитата: "Mr. Midnight"​Probably, some Newfoundland and Canada coins were struck on common planchets, but exactly where and when, I have only a wikipedia level knowledge, so this is provisional until I study more, and acquire more -
​​​
​​​
​​​

​​​Newfoundland is sterling and Canada is sterling till 1920, after that different planchets. only again 1947 did the newfoundland dime and Canadian dime booth where 80%.

​​good information. but where made? London, UK mint until when? when did Canada start its own mint?

​canadas mint was started in 1908 but newfoundland coins where made in the tower mint, the production of newfoundland coins varied because on some coins there is a mint mark and some don't have man marks. mint marks shows they where made in the Ottawa mint and non mint marks means the tower mint. before 1908 all coinage was made at the royal mint. during ww2 the royal Canadian mint was making newfoundlands coins because of ww2, not shipping money in fear of U boats.

I have a new example. Rome has minted coins for San Marino and Vatican city for many years. we have looked at various silver types in this thread, and now here are 10c coppers both minted at Rome. Same I believe as the Albanian 1930s era coins.

I guess this counts ...
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces216638.html [Guernsey]
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces216639.html [Jersey]

The florin planchet (28.5mm wide, 2mm thick and usually weighing 11.31g) is one of the most common planchets because of good ‘ol Brrritish colonialism.

This 1939 Tunisian 20 franc piece has not appeared in this thread yet. 

It was struck on the same planchets as the Cosmopolitan France 20 franc piece.

It is a fairly low mintage coin, not to say rare. they can be found for sale.

The 1939 France 20 franc coin is a really scarce key date I will likely never own.