this is a game I have been playing. Anyone can play!
These are coins struck at the same mint in the same time period, on exactly the same planchets, for different countries.
i have posted this example in another thread, I'll include it again -
Paris provided coins to the French Mediterranean protectorates and mandates. From 1929-1939, the 10 franc/50piastre coins were on .680 silver 10g 28mm planchets.
In the 1950s, France issued 100 franc coins
In 1955 the region of Saarland, then a quasi-independant French protectorate, issued "Saar franken", minted in Paris on the same planchets as the French francs. In 1956 Monaco got them too. These were nickle alloy coins 6g 24mm.
Examples of France+Monaco coins are really too easy, since all Monaco coins have been aligned with France for centuries, but the three together make a nice set.
Here is a wonderful example-
The Philadelphia mint struck all the coinage for the republic of Cuba from 1914 until the revolution of 1959.
The silver ABC pesos were minted on the same .900 silver 26.73 g 38mm planchets as the US Peace dollars. In 1934 and 1935, they were both issued for both countries. Cuba pesos were issued through 1939.
The only other cuban denomination that is same as a USA coin would be the silver 10centavo, 2.5g 17.9mm.
the cuban 10c. were issued 1915,1916, 1920, 1948, 1949, 1952, overlapping three different US dime types. I have a full set of cuban 10centavos, but not a single US silver dime!
I imagine many examples could be found from the British Royal mint....
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
Your Syrian and Lebanese 50 Piastres are great coins! I especially like the link with the 10 Francs here as it does not seem obvious until you realise those currencies were pegged to each other.
Nice topic that makes me think where we can find more examples. The only one I can think of now is the Austrian 1 Groschen 1948 which was struck on wartime 1 Reichspfennig dies. Not comtemporary but it links two coins that do not seem related in first glance.
I'm on vacation so can't take photos of my coins... but here are some I've already taken:
Also posted on that other thread; Ignore the 1 Piastre; but the French, Moroccan and Tunisian 20 Francs are on the same planchets, just like their 10 Franc equivalents you posted.
Also, I read somewhere that the dies of Hong Kong coins were sold to Japan in 1868; thus the Hong kong issues of 1863-68 and early Meiji Japan issues are on identical planchets. Not sure why, though.
I can add the 10, 20 and 50 franc/frank Paris bronzes of the 1950s.
(Edit to add the Morocco pieces)
The Monaco coins were issued in 1950 and 1951, the Saar coins in 1954 only.
The iconic French Roosters ran from 1950 to 1958, with some gaps.
These planchets were used for a number of CFA countries coinage during the period -Madagascar, Cameroon, maybe others, but I dont have any of them.
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
Speaking of the CFA Franc, the 50 centimes, 1 Franc and 2 Francs aluminium are all struck on the same planchets; post-war French aluminium colonial/post-colonial coinage on identical planchets include:
Metropolitan France (Vichy and Aluminium Morlon issues)
Saint Pierre et Miquelon
French West Africa
French Equatorial Africa
Madagascar
New Hebrides
French Oceania/Polynesia
Togo
Cameroon
Comoros
Réunion
Frech Somaliland/Djibouti
More French same planchet sets related to our 1920s-30s French issues would be the Aluminium-bronze 0,50, 1 and 2 Francs Chambre de Commerce issues and Morlon compared to similar era issues in Tunisia and Morocco, as well as colonial coins issued in the French Mandates of Togo and Cameroon. For the 1950s, Morocco also issued 50 Franc coin similar to the Rooster 50 Franc and it's associates that you posted.
The story with the French Indochinese Piastre from 1931 (great coin btw and I am a proud owner) beats me. According to multiple sources the Indochinese Piastres was pegged at 10 Francs in the 1930's. But this coin has 18 grams of pure silver, looks like the 20 Francs coin (13.6 grams silver) with the 10 Francs at a lousy 6.8 grams.
This makes me wonder wether this Piastre was a bullion or trade coin used for its silver rather than a regular 1 Piastre. Silver was the metal of preference for Chinese traders and maybe the 18 grams fitted well with the Chinese being slightly less than half a Tael. Same goes for the smaller silver coins, with the 1936 50 Centimes containing 12 grams of pure silver. Looks more like if a Piastre was worth 30 Francs.
Maybe different rates applied for silver coins compared to paper money, but it does look weird to me.
Great, thanks friends, for your input. Jokinen, I had never heard of those Austrian groschen. Fascinating story, not just the 1, but the 5 and 10 groschen zinc coins were struck over already existing Reichspfennig coins, and sometimes you can see the old image behind the new! There is something new in this hobby every time you turn a page.
CassTaylor, I hoped you would bring the 20 Francs in here, good.
You have set a big challenge with all those CFA types. I have a few I can post now. I added the Morrocco 1950s bronzes to the post above, issued only in AH1371 (1951-52)
here also I have some of the C de C 1920s types. I remembered the Tunisian ones too late to get in the first pictures, and I had already put all the others away. (edit: I just noticed the Monaco pieces were struck at Poissy, so a near miss.)
While I had the Tunisians out, we can go back a bit further to pre-1920 silver francs -
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
Stepping away from French and French colonial coins; many Italian and Albanian coins from 1926 to 1940 were likely minted on similar, if not identical planchets. I can exhibit these coins of 0.20, 0.50, 1 and 2 Lire/Lek that have in-common planchets.
The first Albanian issues in 1926 are almost identical dimension-wise to their 1920s Italian counterparts; the Albanian Lek was pegged to the Lire. Then, when Italy straight-up invaded and annexed Albania in March 1939, a new series of (also identical) coins was minted for there in 1939-41.
This is a larger set of Italian (above) denominations of the interwar era- similar 1939-40 Albanian (under Italian rule) 0.05 and 0.10 Lek, as well as (on the other end) 5 and 10 Lek silver coins exist with Vittorio Emmanuele III's portrait. Changes in metal (e.g. Bronze to Aluminium-bronze for the 5 and 10 Centesimi coins, in 1939) were reflected in Albanian coinage of the same denominations as well.
splendid example, but <sigh> 200 BF to the dollar! hard times indeed.
from reading the US mints tables I find myself interested in Panama and already accumulating a new collection!
starting with the Philadelphia minted VN BALBOA, updating an image in the first post, exactly equal to one US dollar and one Cuban Peso, of the same year, 1934 -
Superb Art Deco reverse design
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
About Italy , not only Albania but I would like remember you of an example outside the colonial period: Trust Territory of Somaliland administered by Italy between 1950 and 1960
extracted from wikipedia:
On 27 January 1950, Italy was given financial administration of the Territory (of former Italian Somalia). As early as 1948 Italy had been considering the options for currencies in Somalia, in anticipation that the territory would be returned to its control. After rejecting the idea of re-introducing the Italian lira, or a currency linked to the lira, it was decided to introduce a new currency. The new currency was denominated the ‘Somalo’ and it was authorized by the Trusteeship Administration’s Ordinance No.14 of 16 May 1950. The Somalo was valued at 0.124414 grammes of fine gold and was, significantly, the same value as the East African shilling. By making the Somalo equivalent to the East African shilling, it was anticipated that the transition to the new currency would be as painless as possible.In adopting the value of the East African shilling, it was also decided to utilize the same denominations in which the East African shillings were issued, although not all denominations issued by the East African Currency Board were adopted for the new currency. Notes were prepared in the denominations of 1, 5, 10, 20 and 100 Somali. (‘Somali’ being the plural of ‘Somalo’.) Coins were prepared in denominations of 1 Somalo, 50, 10, 5 and 1 "Centesimi"
Цитата: "raduga7"About Italy , not only Albania but I would like remember you of an example outside the colonial period: Trust Territory of Somaliland administered by Italy between 1950 and 1960
Were those coins minted on the same planchets as East African coinage? I know their silver coin issues ended in 1946, before the first Somalo issues in 1950.
1952 United Kingdom 3 Pence - George VI
1950 Fiji 3 Pence - George VI
While many British colonies that used the pound sterling had their coins struck on similar (if not the same) planchets as their British denominational counterparts, I think Fiji was the only colony to adopt a brass 3d coin that was dimensionally identical to the contemporary British brass 3d (minted 1937-1971).
Other colonies on the pound sterling (e.g. Australia, New Zealand, Southern Rhodesia) used small 3 pence coins in silver (then later in copper-nickel) instead.
Very nice, I like those British brass 3pences, I have several, but none from Fiji. I bought a Nigeria 3 pence a while ago, thinking it would be on the same planchet, but it is much smaller than the UK counterparts.
speaking of Fiji, during the war in 1942 and 43, Sydney mint struck silver coinage for Fiji in the same Sterling silver planchets as those minted for Australia
previously, the Fiji silver was the same 0,500 alloy as that used by New Zealand, I have not researched the origin of those coins. I presume the 6d. and 3d. were likewise.
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
Weren't those S mints on Fiji coins from San Francisco? Only the US made Australian coinage in the war. Odd that Australia made Fiji when they couldn't make their own...
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
Цитата: "Oklahoman"Weren't those S mints on Fiji coins from San Francisco? Only the US made Australian coinage in the war. Odd that Australia made Fiji when they couldn't make their own...
You are correct sir, the 1942S and 43S Australian and Fiji coins were made in San Francisco!
However, it does appear that the Melbourne mint made Australian coins throughout the war years, as well.
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
In 1953, Cuba made the strange decision to issue 25c., and 50c. coins, after almost 40 years of 20c. and 40c. issues. The series was a new commemorative design. it included a 1c. and a Peso, but alas no 10c.
This must have made shop keepers irate! to have to add two new denominations that are very close (but more!) than existing coins, many mistakes must have been made in haste as a result of this peculiar decision!
for our purposes, it means that in 1953, the Philadelphia mint struck both US and Cuban coinage on the same planchets.
José Martí is in good company!
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
A little add-on to my Italian-Albanian set from a few posts ago:
Identical planchet 5 Lire coins of Italy, San Marino and the Vatican from the 1930s. The corresponding Albanian 1 Frang Ar and later (after Italian invasion in 1939) 5 Lire is also probably from the same planchet, but I don't have those yet.
The 10 Lire:
(I don't have the Vatican one, or corresponding 2 Franga Ari/10 Lire from Albania yet)
The 20 Lire; I have the Italian issue:
But I don't think the Albanian 5 Franga Ari was minted on the same planchet; there is a San Marino 20 Lire issue that probably is though I don't have it.
Those are splendid! The San Marino designs are really striking. I had not thought of San Marino, I suppose it bears the same relation in regards to money, to Italy as Monaco does to France, or did prior to the eurozone engulfing all.
here are some more Philadelphia mint examples, dimes of Cuba and Panama and the USA.
The Cuba coins, were not only minted in the US, they were also designed by engraver by Charles Barber.
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
Fairly certain some Canadian (and maybe Newfoundland) coins were minted on the same planchets as their American counterparts, can someone confirm/refute this theory?
Don't think so. I think most of Canada's circulating silver were .800 fine and possibly .500 fine. USA was .900 or the lower fineness of the Kennedy halves. Base metal coinage is not the same content either. But dimensions are close enough that you can find quarters dimes nickels and cents circulating between both countries.
Library Media Specialist, columnist, collector, and gardener...
Probably, some Newfoundland and Canada coins were struck on common planchets, but exactly where and when, I have only a wikipedia level knowledge, so this is provisional until I study more, and acquire more -
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
@Jonathan
A long while ago I suggested you collect the post-war aluminium French colonial issues struck on the same planchets; I've gathered a few of them here (not a complete collection by any means!):
1 Franc coins; AOF, AEF, St Pierre et Miquelon, Réunion, New Caledonia, French Oceania, French Polynesia.
2 Francs coins; AOF, AEF, St Pierre et Miquelon, French Polynesia, New Caledonia, Comoros
I'm currently missing both denominations of Madagascar.
That makes a nice set and belong here, I agree. thank you for getting them all together.
I have an aversion to aluminum coins - irrational I know. I dont have any of the French war time or post war coinage, nor even the Monaco ones, which leaves significant gaps. I don't have any zinc coins either.
Maybe when I have finished collected everything else, the aluminum pieces will come up...
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
Цитата: "CassTaylor"That reminds me; WWII Monaco 1 and 2 Francs also fit into the aluminium set posted above too, but I didn't think to include them.
yes, that will probably be my entry into those. i have a special interest for Monaco.
meanwhile, I very much like the Bronze-alu coins of France, especially these 1950-58 roosters
I had a bag of them to play with when i was a lad, and I remember my father explaining what 'old francs' and new francs' were. I might say these are my favorite coins. damned 'key dates' and all !
We discussed earlier that these planchets were also struck for, and issued by some CFA countries. I have made a little study of this in the Numista catalog -
I believe 15 different coins. corrections and additions welcome.
I found one already
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
Anyway, I actually hate that design of the 1950s 10-20-50 francs; it's so bland and dull compared to some of the (IMHO) more inspired designs, my favourite being la Semeuse (the soweress), which is my profile picture as well.
The 1950s 100 Francs coin is much better design-wise but I still prefer older designs (1890s-1930s); Pierre Turin's Marianne on the 1929-39 10 and 20 silver Francs is a close second for my heart. And the Marianne depicted with a winged Phygrian cap on the post-WWII colonial issues... wouah!
Цитата: "jokinen"Do you own a Phrygian cap yourself?
Does a beanie count?
Fun fact though; the "Phygrian caps" depicted on Turin's Marianne (as well as a few other early-mid 20th century French coins), and modern depictions of it, I believe are actually more inspired by Revolutionary era peasant bonnets than the original caps worn by freed slaves in antiquity, or the ones worn by sans-culottes in the first Revolution.
I agree, Oscar Roty's la Semeuse design is inspired.
Reviving the design for the New Franc was a great decision.
Some say too, that Adolph Weinman's Walking Liberty (who also wears the phrygian cap) was inspired by her.
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
Given that the first generation of silver Semeuse francs were circulating when the Walking Liberty design was created (1916), it seems more likely than not... IMO having flag stripes on Liberty's dress is a bit too on the nose, but I think la Semeuse might do well with something in her free hand.
Anyway, back on topic, I'll open up an untouched part of the world here, Portugal and it's colonies:
Portugal and Cabo Verde 20 centavos, 1920s-30s
Angola and Mozambique 10 Escudos, 1952
There are definitely more; most are from the 20th century, perhaps some colonial coinage was struck on the same planchets as the ones intended to circulate in Portugal proper, but I'm not familiar with the older Portuguese issues. I wouldn't be surprised if some could be found in circulation in another colony with same-planchet coins.
Interestingly, there are also Portuguese colonies with coins that are pegged to a different currency, such as Portuguese India, Portuguese Timor and Macau, who have similar design motifs but that I can confirm are all differently dimensioned.
a 1/4 and a 1/2 dollar and balboa, all struck at Philadelphia
I found it interesting to find that during the depression years, Phila. minted more coins for foreign customers than for the US. For example, there were no US Philadelphia 1933 half dollars.
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
Touching on an even remoter corner of our world; here's a 1924 USSR Rouble and a 1925 Mongolia 1 Tugrik that have identical dimensions:
Yes, that is the 1924 Soviet ruble that I entered in MPCC, that just lost in the semifinals!
In the 1920s the USSR was still getting back on it's feet after the mess that was the Great War, the Russian Revolutions and the Russian Civil War. Mongolia was similarly in a big mess, having achieved de jure independence from China only in 1913, and finding itself a landlocked nation with few resources, turned to the Soviets for help after a 1921 communist revolution established the Mongolian People's Republic.
Thus, Mongolia's first coinage issues (dated 1924-25) were minted at the Leningrad Mint, on leftover planchets for the Soviet issues around the same time. I'm fairly certain Tannu Tuva (another landlocked, Central Asian country under Soviet influence) coins from 1934 were also minted on Soviet planchets, but I haven't been lucky enough to own one (yet... this might change very shortly).
I somehow missed this latest example. that's a very interesting story. East Asia is another area I know very little, numismaticly. The Mongolian script is intriguing.
here is my latest assemblage, the 1929 10, 25 and 50 piastres of Syria and Lebanon.
the 10s are significant. I know of no other users of the 2g 17mm planchet. I know there are smaller coins, but these are the smallest ones i have.
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
That Mongolian script is often associated with Manchu, since the Manchu text that appears on many Qing Dynasty (of Manchu origin) coins is in Mongol script. I suppose the mixup was inevitable, with the Manchus and Mongols being so (relatively) similar; descendants of nomads and raiders that inhabit the plains and grasslands north of China.
Mongolian was written most commonly in that script, with Chinese characters also being common until the 1940s, when Khorloogiin Choibalsan, a man commonly called the "Mongolian Stalin" (for good reasons), and also head of a Soviet communist puppet regime before those became cool after WWII, decided to start using the Cyrillic script for writing Mongolian, and it has become the most common script in independent (Outer) Mongolia to this day.
Those colonial piastres are intriguing. For a French colonial collector myself I haven't had much opportunity to get many coins from the Syria and Lebanon mandates until relatively recently, same for Togo and Cameroon. I'm looking for the 1943 Free French issues from AEF, Cameroon and Madagascar at the moment.
The France Libre Pretoria mint roosters, I have some of those.
three different territories, two sizes, two alloys, variants of some. 10 different types, I beleive.
Researching these was actually how I first got started on Numista.
I might look for better examples, I got less expensive ones. The 1942 brass alloy suffered.
here is another group of Paris coins, the 24mm holed 25 centime 1913-1940.
The story is rather complicated, the alloys change several times and are different for different localities, so not all the ones in this picture are exactly the same.
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
@Mr.Midnight
If you do get better examples, maybe I'll arrange a future swap with you for the ugly ones... All the ones I've seen in France and Italy are either too good to be affordable, or bad but overpriced.
And I'm not sure if the alloys match up 100% (like you considered) but the Moroccan 25 centimes of the 1920s probably also fits into your 25 ct. lot, as does the 1 Piastre of Lebanon. Here they are, but minus your Tunisian coin:
The top two ones are what you were talking about; variants struck in a different alloy, nickel-brass instead of CuNi, used in 1938-39.
Reviving this thread once more; this is honestly a favourite of mine, since I often discover coins that were minted on the same planchets that I would never have thought of earlier.
Anyway, this time Spain and the Spanish Philippines are in the spotlight:
In 1864, Spain was in a very unstable economic position, having declined in the past 200 years from global superpower to third-rate empire. The recent decimalisation of the real and a currency change had done it no good; it's new currency of the escudo (1864-68) proved not much more stable. But the colonial administration in the Spanish Philippines decided this would be a great time to start minting standardised, decimalised coinage; and in 1864, the same year the escudo coins came out in Spain, the first coins of the peso fuerte came out in the Spanish Philippines. 1 Escudo coins were minted on the same planchets as the 50 centimo coins, with other denominations also being struck on identical planchets to Spanish counterparts.
1868 1 Escudo, left; 50 centimos de peso [fuerte], right.
However, in 1868 Spain's Queen Isabel II was forced into exile after the Glorious Revolution; the new provisional government decided to embark on a new, LMU-standard currency; the peseta. However the Spanish Philippines continued to mint coins to the same dimensions as the (now demonetised) Escudo coins until 1885, rather than pegging their currency to the new peseta.
1896 5 Pesetas (left); 1897 1 Peso (right).*
That is until 1897, when the colonial administration finally got around to revaluing the currency. Now plans to peg the Peso Fuerte to the Peseta were drawn up; with the new 1 Peso coins being equal to, and minted on the same planchets as the Spanish LMU 5 Peseta coin. Both coins' edges even have the same relief fleur-de-lys motifs of the Bourbon dynasty. The 1 Peso coin was the only one minted during this phase of the Peso Fuerte's life, however, as the following year Spain ceded the Philippines to the US following it's defeat in the Spanish-American War of 1898.
*The much rarer Puerto Rican Peso coins from 1895 were also minted at par with Spanish Pesetas, and they too only circulated for a few years until the US took over in 1898.
Here one a little off topic. But made from the same planchet. The Mexican 2 peso bi-metal coin Km#604 . When they punch out the center to make the rings. They use the centers to make the Mexican 20 centavos Km#935.
Wow a mint that makes some" cents". Even though they have not made a 1 centavo coin since 1976 .
I see some contributions I somehow missed - thanks Cass Taylor for that story of Spain and her remotest final colonies. I would love to see the Puerto Rico colonials next to the Philippines ones.
Thanks also Allred, It only makes sense to make coins out of those round punch out planchets, i wonder if other countries do that.
In the very first post of this topic I showed the 10 franc 10g 28mm 0,680 silver planchet coins minted in Paris 1929-39. I can also now show the 5 franc Tunisian and Moroccan 5g 24mm silver coins stuck in Paris at the same time.
Unfortunately Metropolitan France did not get a similar 5f. coin. Instead France got a 31mm nickle alloy coin that resembled somewhat the traditional 5 franc 'crown' sized coins.
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
Цитата: "Mr. Midnight"Unfortunately Metropolitan France did not get a similar 5f. coin. Instead France got a 31mm nickle alloy coin that resembled somewhat the traditional 5 franc 'crown' sized coins.
I cannot summarise how much I hate that coin's design. I get that they were going for the Art Deco modernist minimalism, but that coin just looks so awfully simple, just like some common token. I'm not sure if you know about the one year 1933 issue of a smaller nickel 5f coin, but I vastly prefer it to the one whose design went on to circulate until 1960.
Цитата: "Mr. Midnight"Unfortunately Metropolitan France did not get a similar 5f. coin. Instead France got a 31mm nickle alloy coin that resembled somewhat the traditional 5 franc 'crown' sized coins.
I think you are talking about this coin:
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces892.html
I cannot summarise how much I hate that coin's design. I get that they were going for the Art Deco modernist minimalism, but that coin just looks so awfully simple, just like some common token. I'm not sure if you know about the one year 1933 issue of a smaller nickel 5f coin, but I vastly prefer it to the one whose design went on to circulate until 1960.
I agree the 31mm Lavrillier design is ugly, and I don't have any, rare 'key dates' not withstanding. Made even worse stuck in aluminium after the war. It is remarkable though, in having been issued in three different materials over the years.
The 6g 24mm nickle alloy Bazor design seems to have been rejected by the public, despite its superior aesthetic design. The planchet specification seems to have been revived in 1950 for the Cochet 100 franc coin.
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
1944 French West Africa 50 centimes, 1 Franc
Not sure if these have been brought up before here, but those are a provisional type minted on identical planchets as the 1930s Morlon Francs in aluminium bronze.
För Brödrafolkens Väl!
It's not so surprising that in the 19th and 20th (and even now) centuries there was a small but vocal movement for Scandinavian unification into a new Kalmar Union.
In the 1890s, Hungary produced 1, 2 and 5 leva coins for Bulgaria (they even have the mintmark of Körmöcbánya on them). They have the same/identical planchets as the Hungarian 1, 2 and 5 Korona coins of that period.
During the same period, Liechtenstein used the Austro-Hungarian Krone/Korona as its currency. As far as I know, 1, 2, 5, 10 and 20 krone coins were minted in Vienna on the same planchets as the Austrian krone coins. Later Liechtenstein adopted the Swiss franc as its official currency, and franc coins were minted in Bern using the same planchets as they used for to mint Swiss coins.
Цитата: "BSmith"In the 1890s, Hungary produced 1, 2 and 5 leva coins for Bulgaria (they even have the mintmark of Körmöcbánya on them). They have the same/identical planchets as the Hungarian 1, 2 and 5 Korona coins of that period.
During the same period, Liechtenstein used the Austro-Hungarian Krone/Korona as its currency. As far as I know, 1, 2, 5, 10 and 20 krone coins were minted in Vienna on the same planchets as the Austrian krone coins. Later Liechtenstein adopted the Swiss franc as its official currency, and franc coins were minted in Bern using the same planchets as they used for to mint Swiss coins.
Excellent, I have one of the Bulgarian Lev with the KM mintmark. I will look out for Hungarian Korona of that era. Is there a book about the KM mint?
what i have seen of Liechtenstein coins at auction, I am afraid I will never own any. Iwould love to see pictures.
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
Цитата: "CassTaylor"
1944 French West Africa 50 centimes, 1 Franc
Not sure if these have been brought up before here, but those are a provisional type minted on identical planchets as the 1930s Morlon Francs in aluminium bronze.
Not in this thread, though I recall we discussed them elsewhere. Minted in London, I believe.
Initially I was looking for coins struck at the same mint at the same time, but just as interesting are different coins struck at various mints to the same material specification, like these, and your scandinavian example. Also earlier, I cited the 'bon pour' francs 1924-26 minted at Poissey.
This opens another area in need of research, I understand mints do not necessarily refine and mix alloys, roll sheet, and punch planchets on site, but often contract this work to third-party metal fabricators.
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
Цитата: "BSmith"In the 1890s, Hungary produced 1, 2 and 5 leva coins for Bulgaria (they even have the mintmark of Körmöcbánya on them). They have the same/identical planchets as the Hungarian 1, 2 and 5 Korona coins of that period.
Most countries in Eastern Europe had their currency influenced by a great power of the time; for example looking at Bulgarian coins, the pre-WWI issues are the same dimensions as Austro-Hungarian Krone issues; then after WWI, their coins took on a more French style when some 1925 issues minted at Poissy; then the designs and dimensions became more German during WWII (some were minted in Germany too). After the end of that, Bulgarian coins took on a distinctly Soviet style, until the end of the Cold War.
Even banknotes have this influence visible; Serbia, Montenegro and Romania had very clearly French influenced notes until the 1930s, while Bulgaria's were more German influenced; Greece used the American Banknote Company to print it's notes, except for a 1935 issue that looks very French; and Albanian notes in the late 1930s look like Italian notes.
That's some good observation. I detect a graduate thesis topic.
The mention of Poissey brought me up sharp. The 1925 2 Leva is the only one i could locate, are there others?
There were two mints for this issue - Brussels and Poissy.
Where are the primary sources for these mint records? We have the US mint record, how can I get the Poissey and Brussels mint records?
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
Цитата: "Mr. Midnight"That's some good observation. I detect a graduate thesis topic.
The mention of Poissey brought me up sharp. The 1925 2 Leva is the only one i could locate, are there others?
There were two mints for this issue - Brussels and Poissy.
Where are the primary sources for these mint records? We have the US mint record, how can I get the Poissey and Brussels mint records?
Here is an assemblage I have completed recently.
The French 20mm, 23.5mm, and 27mm bronze franc coins of 1950-1958 were also issued to six different overseas departments, one year each, with different designs, front and back, though every one includes Française at least once.
It is interesting that coins struck on these planchets continued to be produced in Paris, for use by various post colonial African countries to this day, despite France herself undergoing the change to the nouveau franc in 1960.
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
Cuba has been brought up quite often on this thread, so I was looking at it just now and thought about it's Francophone neighbour on Hispaniola, Haiti:
I've no concrete evidence to confirm that late 19th century Haitian coins were struck on the same planchets as their French contemporary counterparts, but if not they're certainly from identical planchets; with the 10 centime coin being the same dimensionally as the Haitian 2 centimes, and the 50 centimes corresponding to the Haitian 10 centimes.
I'm not lucky enough to own it (yet), but the Haitian 1 Gourde is identically dimensioned to the French "écu" 5 Franc Germinal coin issued 1795-1889.
Very cool. Same privy marks, same dimensions, same alloy, same dates - looks like a match.
I have been studying both Cuba and Dominican Republic in relation to the Philadelphia mint, but have not yet given a thought to Haiti!
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
more Paris -- can't be helped.
The French 31mm 5 franc, Andre Lavallier design coin is quite interesting and its history complex, even as we disparage its aesthetic and historic appeal. from 1933, it was issued in Nickel alloy, to resemble 5 franc pieces of earlier generations.
during 1938-40, and then again after the war 1945-48 , according to comments, the design was struck in bronze for use in 'Africa', or specifically, presumably, Algeria.
Simultaniously, and as late as 1952, the same coin was stuck in aluminum for use in France, by then a very small denomination - could one buy even one baguette or a single cigarette for 5 Francs in 1952? Hard times.
Back to our topic, a 5 franc coin was also issued to Tunisia in 1946 only, obviously on the same bronze-alu planchet as the Algeria issue.
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
Here's an interesting little chart showing the value of 1 Franc in Euros from 10 years ago. In the 1950s the buying power of a 1 Franc coin was so little, as you can see on the nearly flat line on the graph.
After the switch to the New Franc, some old Franc coins kept circulating for a while; the old 100 Francs coin, for example, was used sometimes as a 1 NF coin.
Цитата: "Mr. Midnight"Very cool. Same privy marks, same dimensions, same alloy, same dates - looks like a match.
I have been studying both Cuba and Dominican Republic in relation to the Philadelphia mint, but have not yet given a thought to Haiti!
And it looks like coins from the Dominican Republic before the turn of the 20th century and the introduction of the "peso oro" (gold peso) in 1905 were also struck in Paris on the same planchets, mint/privy marks and all:
(not my photo)
Цитата: "Mr. Midnight"Very cool. Same privy marks, same dimensions, same alloy, same dates - looks like a match.
I have been studying both Cuba and Dominican Republic in relation to the Philadelphia mint, but have not yet given a thought to Haiti!
And it looks like coins from the Dominican Republic before the turn of the 20th century and the introduction of the "peso oro" (gold peso) in 1905 were also struck in Paris on the same planchets, mint/privy marks and all:
(not my photo)
For a while the coins even had "de franco" (of [the] franc) on them:
https://en.numista.com/catalogue/republique_dominicaine-1.html#c_republique_dominicaine314
huh, yup. half a franc. 1891 only.
I have a Paris minted 1897 DR 10c. but it is of 0,350 silver, which is, as far as I can determine the only use of that alloy. An orphan in my collection :
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
it is quite yellow, and arguable, it is a kind of brass, since copper is the majority element.
The composition is 0,560 copper, 0,350 silver and, 0,090 manganese.
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
Цитата: "Mr. Midnight"it is quite yellow, and arguable, it is a kind of brass, since copper is the majority element.
The composition is 0,560 copper, 0,350 silver and, 0,090 manganese.
Brass is an alloy of zinc and copper, so I'm not 100% sure if that composition (combination w/ manganese) counts. But then again I barely scraped a passing grade in my Chemistry GCSEs a while back, so what do I know.
We've visited practically every corner of the world on this thread, haven't we? From Albania to Cuba to Mongolia to French Africa. I'll rack my brains and see if I can come up with something new on common or at least identical planchets later.
I was reorganising my British Empire collection and remembered those:
These 1955-65 British Caribbean Territories coins seem to be minted on the same planchets as contemporary British halfpennies and pennies; I'm not sure about the other denominations though.
Very remarkable that dollar denominated coins might be common with pound denominated ones.
I have thought that the British Royal mint would provide a great many examples for us, but i have not found a way to research it. Is there a book about the Royal mint products?
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
Цитата: "Mr. Midnight"Very remarkable that dollar denominated coins might be common with pound denominated ones.
I have thought that the British Royal mint would provide a great many examples for us, but i have not found a way to research it. Is there a book about the Royal mint products?
If you mean a book of records like you had for the foreign coins minted at the Philadelphia mint, I can't find anything like that, but I'm sure a facility as prominent as the Royal Mint has records of sorts somewhere.
Many years ago, the 100 franc coin occasionally circulated in Greece since the 2 Drachma coin was struck from the same planchet and at the Monnaie de Paris - and vice versa but while the 2 drachma coin was worth about 7 cents, the french coin was about 28 cents.
Цитата: "M Alexander"https://s3.amazonaws.com/ngccoin-production/world-coin-price-guide/62472-3930047-004rb.jpg
Many years ago, the 100 franc coin occasionally circulated in Greece since the 2 Drachma coin was struck from the same planchet and at the Monnaie de Paris - and vice versa but while the 2 drachma coin was worth about 7 cents, the french coin was about 28 cents.
As per documentation different engraver and year, but there was not copyright at that time? (specially on reverses)
Uruguay coins were minted at Paris and Birmingham, Paraguay coins at Birmingham and other unknown mint.
Just 10 options: you understand binary, or you don't.
Catalog Referee Coins, Banknotes & Exonumia: Uruguay, Cuba, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Mexico, Peru, Paraguay, Costa Rica, Venezuela, Panama, Ecuador, Zamunda, Parva Domus and more.
Since we're doing Japan on the daily country thread, I thought I'd bring these up:
After Japan modernised following the Meiji Restoration, it rapidly became a modern power; and looked to secure its interests by establishing the "cordon of interest"; essentially a sphere of influence, in Korea. The first western, machine struck coins had been produced in Japan in 1869, and the first such Korean coins began being produced at the Tokyo mint in 1886.
Great new material!
I love the Uruguay-Paraguay connection. I have a collection of Uruguay, but none of those early coppers, and nothing at all from Paraguay.
I think i have seen some Korean coins that resemble Japanese coins in one of my favorite haunts, I will be investigating that soon! Cass, You mentioned a possible Japan-Hong Kong connection too, I beleive, some time ago? Perhaps some Chinese puppet states too, in the 1930s might have gotten Japanese types...
I went out and got some of the Paris 1950s Greek drachme coins on french 100franc planchets -
Same number reeds and everything.
My measurements of both coins give precisely 24mm dia, and 6 grams. I think the numista cataloguer had inferior instruments, or very worn coins.
I wonder if the other planchet types in this series were issued in any other countries?
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
About that Japan-Hong Kong connection, it's not really much of a connection; Hong Kong was only ever occupied by the Japanese during WWII, although some of their coins might have been minted on common planchets with those of another British colony in Southeast Asia, the Straits Settlements.
The only way Hong Kong and Japan are connected is by the sale of the Hong Kong mint's dies and equipment to the Tokyo mint, after the last coins struck in Hong Kong ceased production in 1868 (from then on Hong Kong coins were minted at the Royal Mint and Heaton Mint in the UK), because it was deemed not cost-effective to operate a mint there.
Perhaps the "large" 1 Yen type is minted on similar planchets to the 1866-68 Hong Kong dollar, but I do not have the first coin to check.
From 1960 with the introduction of the new franc in France, Monaco issued common coinage minted at Paris,on the same planchets. Eventually all of the French new franc denominations has at least one year of analogous Monégasque types.
Here are matching Fleurs-de-coins mint sets-
Monaco did not get one- or five centime coins until 1976.
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
I'm surprised to see the coins of Uruguay and Paraguay of 1869 -1870 to be on the same planchets.
At that time Argentina, Brasil and Uruguay were in a bloody war with Paraguay and they basically destroyed the country.
90% of the male population of Paraguay died in that war.
If you visit Paraguay it does not take long to realize that they still haven't recovered from that war.
Цитата: "CassTaylor"
The only way Hong Kong and Japan are connected is by the sale of the Hong Kong mint's dies and equipment to the Tokyo mint, after the last coins struck in Hong Kong ceased production in 1868 (from then on Hong Kong coins were minted at the Royal Mint and Heaton Mint in the UK), because it was deemed not cost-effective to operate a mint there.
Perhaps the "large" 1 Yen type is minted on similar planchets to the 1866-68 Hong Kong dollar, but I do not have the first coin to check.
"After two years having incurred a huge loss to the government it [the Hong Kong Mint] closed on 25th April 1868.
The mint machinery was sold first to Jardine Matheson in 1868 and in turn to the Japan Mint in Osaka, Japan where it was used to make the first yen coins in 1870."
A little addendum for Ireland; almost all Irish coins minted between 1928 and 1978 were in dimensions identical to their British counterparts (the Irish pound was at a 1:1 par with the pound sterling until 1979). Exceptions include the "barnyard" 3 and 6 pence/pingin coins, and the 1966 10 shilling commemorative.
I mentioned 1978 earlier, because that was when Irish coins began being produced at the Currency Centre at Dublin, before that it was at the Royal Mint, so it's more likely than not that the same planchets were used there for UK and Irish coins.
Цитата: "CassTaylor"A little addendum for Ireland; almost all Irish coins minted between 1928 and 1978 were in dimensions identical to their British counterparts (the Irish pound was at a 1:1 par with the pound sterling until 1979). Exceptions include the "barnyard" 3 and 6 pence/pingin coins, and the 1966 10 shilling commemorative.
I mentioned 1978 earlier, because that was when Irish coins began being produced at the Currency Centre at Dublin, before that it was at the Royal Mint, so it's more likely than not that the same planchets were used there for UK and Irish coins.
Will see if I can get some pictures up later.
True, with exceptions. also of note, from 1928 to 1942, the silver content of Irish coins was 0,700 vs 0,500 of UK coins of the same dimension.
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
I don't have access to my Irish coins right now, so no photos can be taken, but here's another interesting lead: I heard from a Russian numismatist that back in the 1960s, 70s and 80s, Bulgarian coins could sometimes be found in circulation in the USSR because of their nearly identical dimensions and similar designs (emblem on obverse, denomination and wreath on reverse), to the extent that phone booths in the USSR would accept Bulgarian coins.
Цитата: "CassTaylor"I don't have access to my Irish coins right now, so no photos can be taken, but here's another interesting lead: I heard from a Russian numismatist that back in the 1960s, 70s and 80s, Bulgarian coins could sometimes be found in circulation in the USSR because of their nearly identical dimensions and similar designs (emblem on obverse, denomination and wreath on reverse), to the extent that phone booths in the USSR would accept Bulgarian coins.
I can confirm this. Once in the last USSR years of I got a Bulgarian coin in exchange (possibly 20 stotinki). Before giving it to me, the cashier apparently noticed that something is wrong, but perhaps she thought that it will be easy to trick a child.
Цитата: "CassTaylor"I don't have access to my Irish coins right now, so no photos can be taken, but here's another interesting lead: I heard from a Russian numismatist that back in the 1960s, 70s and 80s, Bulgarian coins could sometimes be found in circulation in the USSR because of their nearly identical dimensions and similar designs (emblem on obverse, denomination and wreath on reverse), to the extent that phone booths in the USSR would accept Bulgarian coins.
I can confirm this. Once in the last USSR years of I got a Bulgarian coin in exchange (possibly 20 stotinki). Before giving it to me, the cashier apparently noticed that something is wrong, but perhaps she thought that it will be easy to trick a child.
Thanks for confirming it.
I wonder if the reverse was true- whether Soviet coins could sometimes be found in circulation in Bulgaria during the Warsaw Pact era. But back to the original topic, I don't think they were actually minted on the same planchets, at least not all; since some of the Bulgarian coins tend to be slightly smaller in diameter.
Another Dominican Republic the 5 centavos 1944 Km18a made at the Philadelphia mint looks to be made on a US silver war nickel. The silver is .350 on both, weight on both is 5 g, and dia 21.5 is the same.
Цитата: "ALLRED1950"Another Dominican Republic the 5 centavos 1944 Km18a made at the Philadelphia mint looks to be made on a US silver war nickel. The silver is .350 on both, weight on both is 5 g, and dia 21.5 is the same.
You are correct sir!
Altz & Barton specifically note on the 1944 DR 5 centavos - "same as U.S. wartime 5 cents. 0.560 copper, 0.350 silver, 0.090 manganese"
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
beginning 1982 through 2000, France issued 100 franc silver coins for circulation. These were 15 gram 31mm coins. It seems like a very large denomination. I visited France several times in the early 80s, the exchange rate was around 6 or 7fr to a dollar so a 100fr coin would have been like a 20 dollar bill, which would have payed for a pretty good night on the town at that time. I don't recall ever handling one of these, in fact I don't recall any coin larger than 1 franc.
the series coin with the Pantheon on one side and the Tree on the other was issued in the millions 1982-1986, and in small numbers thereafter. There were also commemoratives every year, beginning 1984 with Madame Curie, also issued by the millions. There were also many commemoratives in smaller numbers.
Monaco also issued these 100 franc coins in 1982 and 1989. These were not released into circulation.
Jamais l'or n'a perdu la plus petite occasion de se montrer stupide. -Balzac
What a wonderful thread
As a french collector i enjoyed very much all your sets from Paris mint.
You made me think about the Indochina piastre from San Francisco (1921-22) which was struck along with Morgan(1921) then Peace(1922) dollars. It should be nice to assemble the four of them https://fr.numista.com/catalogue/pieces11287.html
200 BF to the dollar! hard times indeed.
I get that they were going for the Art Deco modernist minimalism, but that coin just looks so awfully simple, just like some common token. I'm not sure if you know about the 
